[OSList] OSList Digest, Vol 54, Issue 3
Dirk Velten via OSList
oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
Sat Oct 3 18:48:11 PDT 2015
Greetings,
My response to email messages will be even more sporadic than usual since our home internet is disabled, perhaps as long as Mon 5/19—though I will find my way to Starbucks from time to time to catch up.
Cheers,
Dirk
On Oct 3, 2015, at 3:05 PM, via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
> Send OSList mailing list submissions to
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> oslist-request at lists.openspacetech.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> oslist-owner at lists.openspacetech.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: help w/ new global calendar for trainings, osonos events
> and other learning gatherings? (Daniel Mezick via OSList)
> 2. Re: An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS
> (JL Walker via OSList)
> 3. Re: help w/ new global calendar for trainings, osonos events
> and other learning gatherings? (Michael Herman via OSList)
> 4. Re: OSList Digest, Vol 54, Issue 2 (Dirk Velten via OSList)
> 5. Workshops in California, USA - The Power of Pre-Work
> (November); The World Cafe Learning Workshop -and- The Open Space
> Learning Workshop (December) 2015 (Lisa Heft - via OSList)
> 6. The Tyranny of Structurelessness (Daniel Mezick via OSList)
> 7. Re: The Tyranny of Structurelessness (Rosa Zubizarreta via OSList)
> 8. Re: The Tyranny of Structurelessness (Harrison Owen via OSList)
> 9. Re: The Tyranny of Structurelessness (JL Walker via OSList)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 16:35:04 -0400
> From: Daniel Mezick via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>, World wide Open Space
> Technology email list <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] help w/ new global calendar for trainings,
> osonos events and other learning gatherings?
> Message-ID: <560EEA78.3050306 at newtechusa.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> It's good you are talking with Harold about the OSI-US website work. I
> missed that detail in your post.
>
> To be clear, folks can add to this calendar only after they ask you for
> authorization. Right? Am I understanding this correctly?
>
> I wonder if the Google-calendar functionality allows multiple users to
> also have Admin-authority, for example: to approve other folks to make
> edits, to approve other users to also have Admin-authority, etc.
>
> Daniel
>
> On 10/2/15 1:40 PM, Michael Herman wrote:
> Harold is already part of the conversation, Daniel. And the whole
> point of this particular calendar is that many people can add to it
> AND it can be embedded in any website, osius, osw, and any others and
> look exactly the same everywhere.
>
>
>
> On Friday, October 2, 2015, Daniel Mezick via OSList
> <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
> <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
>
>
> I like the idea of an Open Space calendar. Good idea!
>
> I wonder if the Open Space Institute USA web site
> (http://www.osius.org) is the most appropriate and perhaps the
> best place for this kind of thing.
>
> As you point out, Harold Shinsato continues to work very, very
> hard on the overall OSI-US site, all in service to the Open Space
> community.
>
> Here we can see how his hard work helps OSI-US publicize Open
> Space training, not just in the USA but around the world, via the
> OSI-US web site, for anyone seeking OST training worldwide:
>
> http://www.osius.org/trainings
>
> I wonder if you might be willing to contact Harold, discuss how
> you might be able to help him and others to compile the list, add
> your excellent calendar-idea into the existing OSI-US
> training-page, etc.
>
>
>
> Daniel
> www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/About <http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/About>
>
>
>
>
> On 10/2/15 10:41 AM, Michael Herman via OSList wrote:
> hi all,
>
> when i rebuilt openspaceworld.org <http://openspaceworld.org>
> earlier this year, i let go of the training calendar mechanism
> that wasn't really working. mostly it was a little too much work
> to manage, for me and everyone else. then some folks showed up
> and said, "hey, we still want/need something!" we talked about
> that group organizing a little calendar team and producing
> something that could be embedded in various websites.
>
> in light of our osonos conversations, and also really liking what
> harold has posted at osi-us website about all the different
> places (not just "trainings") where OS practitioner learning
> takes place, i created a public google calendar for posting
> trainings, but also osonos events and stammisches(sp?) and any
> other sort of learning events you might want to share globally.
>
> IF you'd know of such events and are willing to help populate
> this new calendar, please email me directly at
> michael at michaelherman.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','michael at michaelherman.com');>.
> i'll tell google that you're allowed to post and tell you how to
> do it. you can post one or more events you know about. when we
> get some stuff posted, we'll make the calendar public for
> reference, with open invitation to others to add next events.
>
> many thanks!
>
> michael
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails toOSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','OSList at lists.openspacetech.org');>
> To unsubscribe send an email toOSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org');>
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here:http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> --
>
> Daniel Mezick, President
>
> New Technology Solutions Inc.
>
> (203) 915 7248 (cell)
>
> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog
> <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter
> <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.
>
> Examine my new book:The Culture Game
> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for
> the Agile Manager.
>
> Explore Agile Team Training
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and
> Coaching. <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>
>
> Explore the Agile Boston
> <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>Community.
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
>
>
> --
>
> Daniel Mezick, President
>
> New Technology Solutions Inc.
>
> (203) 915 7248 (cell)
>
> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog
> <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.
>
> Examine my new book:The Culture Game
> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the
> Agile Manager.
>
> Explore Agile Team Training
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching.
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>
>
> Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>Community.
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/a9e8e61a/attachment.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 18:08:01 -0300
> From: JL Walker via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: "'Suzanne Daigle'" <sdaigle4 at gmail.com>, "'World wide Open Space
> Technology email list'" <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>,
> "'Eleder_BuM'" <eleder.aurtenetxe at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS
> Message-ID: <000c01d0fd56$6c521d80$44f65880$@terra.cl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi friends!
>
>
>
> All of this issue make to remember me this wonderful and fun moment (Thanks Christine Koehler by immortalize this, although we must move our head slightly to the left.):
>
>
>
> https://vimeo.com/11757978
>
>
>
> And now the song is something like this, I think: https://youtu.be/U89hYR8cc5c
>
>
>
> Laughter and hugs,
>
>
>
> Juan Luis
>
>
>
> De: OSList [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] En nombre de Suzanne Daigle via OSList
> Enviado el: viernes, 02 de octubre de 2015 16:16
> Para: Eleder_BuM; World wide Open Space Technology email list
> Asunto: Re: [OSList] An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS
>
>
>
> Dearest Eleder,
>
>
>
> How I love all that you've captured in your note most especially the spirit of invitation and the joy of attending. The fact that there are more and more international gatherings, big and small, training and reunions, is so wonderful.
>
>
>
> Having co-hosted a WOSonOS in Florida with a wonderful gang of University of South Florida students and others, I know the love that went into the welcome and the planning. I felt the same from other host countries where I attended getting a chance to experience their culture through their preparation, feeling the anticipatory joy they had in receiving us. It was in those little touches that I felt it most, local foods, the Open Space posters in their language, their help as to where to stay (so appreciated when I was going to a foreign country) and their recommendations on restaurants or perhaps a few places to visit. No one could argue that some of these things have nothing to do with Open Space, nor are they required but I would never want to deprive the hosts of making us feel special and welcome through those littles touches. At the same time, it can be just as simple as the way Harrison describes it. I totally love those too.
>
>
>
> In our case, the preparations included a few training events and a community Open Space a few months before WOSonOS. All of this seeded an open space way of doing and being that continues to sprout in so many surprising ways years later in the Tampa Bay region and beyond. Most important of all are the spaces that were opened inside each of us.
>
>
>
> That said, I have always felt that those preparations should never distract or predetermine what happens in Open Space nor should they be a burden or put pressure on people to do the same.
>
>
>
> Life is a mix and in the spirit of self-organizing, I think there's room for less is more and sometimes a bit more than less. Up to the hosts to decide, there is no right or wrong, better or less. Reminds me of the Law of 2 Feet.
>
>
>
> I sure hope my two feet take me to Manilla cause I want to walk those hundred miles so that we can "hold the whole wide world in our hands", "whistling all the while". In case you missed it, I fell in love with this video by Sharon Joy Chao. Keep humming it all the time. Whether there in spirit or in person, we feel your welcome and spirit of invitation!
>
>
>
> https://animoto.com/play/XvXVDcOKXjGo0jb1SkwqGQ
>
>
>
> Suzanne
>
>
>
>
> Suzanne Daigle
> Open Space Facilitator
> NuFocus Strategic Group
>
> FL 941-359-8877
> Cell: 203-722-2009
> <http://www.nufocusgroup.com> www.nufocusgroup.com
> <mailto:s.daigle at nufocusgroup.com> s.daigle at nufocusgroup.com
> Twitter @Daiglesuz
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 7:52 AM, Eleder_BuM via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> Hello family!
>
>
>
> I find having a local (yearly or every 2 years) osonos very stimulating.
>
> In the Basque Country we started in 2013 (bOSonOS; I knew in Krakow, that Berliners had done quite many bOSonOS, too) and we are having quite much fun. The invitation is always open to everyone. Probably we?ll keep doing bOSONOS for some years, the local community will grow and, little by little people from far away will like coming.
>
>
>
> Maybe one day we?ll invite for wosonos. If a good bunch of fellows are eager to share the task so as everyone can enjoy it. If we one day decide to invite, I suppose it will be quite simple. Then, if people decide to come wosonosing, great. If not, very fine too (one less thing to take care of :).
>
>
>
> I love attending the international ones from time to time. Enriching, as it makes possible meeting many new practitioners, and OS is people, as life is, too, people -for me, mainly <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ1J9d27aA0> -. Krakow was fantastic, as ever.
>
>
>
> I find myself very comfortable when attending an osonos where 30-70 people attend. Enough variety and not too overwhelming. More manageable.
>
>
>
> I love knowing that the OS community grows on and on, and we are getting to have several osonos yearly around the world. This way, when one is really eager to attend one, the "difficulty" would be on oneself, deciding "which great party will I attend now"? It seems that something like this is already happening, great!
>
>
>
> I suppose we take on too much responsibility and work because we assume that the more people come, the better (And, what about "Whoever comes...?").
>
>
>
> I find, too, that, specially when international, we tend to take on too much burden as invitors. For example,...
>
> * Does the fact that many people will be coming by plane make it more difficult for the invitors to manage it? Why?
> * The payment issue, ... does it involve too much work? What would be the cons of just allowing paying cash on the site?
> * Is a fancy website really required? Or could we even registrate with an email an d having attendees fill in a 3 minutes form?
> * Does the food standard of the meeting tend to be too "smart", "high quality",... making it more difficult for the sponsors to hold? Why?
> * Is organizing a parallel online wosonos really required? Knowing that the permanent Wosonos is happening all the time on the OSLIST and other places online?
> * Maybe some of us feel the burden of showing the world "what our nation is like?..."
>
> * Which other details are the ones that make it specially hard convening wosonos, (apart from taking or assuming the decisions on how to manage language diversity)?
>
> Having had so many wars all around the world for centuries,...Maybe it puts an extra psychological burden on the invitors, wherever they live? Maybe we tend to make a special effort to make it clear all over the world that "we are lovely people":)?
>
>
>
> Regarding the decision on how to decide "where next wosonos"? What
>
> are the special features of wosonos? Maybe that you?ll usually meet there more os-nicks than in a regular osonos (= that it?s bigger)? maybe that you?ll meet with people of a wider part of the planet (= that it feels more diverse)? Perhaps knowing that there are many people that repeat the experience during years and special bonds appear, and you can get to know/become more part of this big family?
>
>
>
> I like the original spirit and I find that we could make it that simple now too,...
>
> "Some nice soul just said, ?Come See us.? If two people had similar inclinations, but different places in mind, who ever spoke second covered the following year. No fuss, no bother and in 10 minutes time the essential arrangements were made."
>
>
>
> I assume that whoever invites is full of passion and able to host us in OS. And that OS, it?ll always be the same and it?ll be also very different each time.
>
>
>
> In fact it?s the people coming, the participants, who make the OS experience.
>
>
>
> In an osonos, a specially high percentage of participants know it, we are the ones that know it best :)! So why do we care so much (I feel) about who the invitors+facilitators are and sometimes seem to evaluate if they are really prepared to hold the event?
>
>
>
> I hope this chaotic and disperse ideas add something to the conversation.
>
>
>
> Enjoy life!
>
>
>
> Eleder
>
>
>
>
>
> 2015-09-30 22:42 GMT+02:00 Michael Herman via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>:
>
> thanks for raising these questions, pernilla. what you're proposing in terms of people (rather than countries!) coming forward at the beginning of the gathering makes great sense to me. these invitations can be offered at any time, of course, including a week or a month before the wosonos gathering time. if our tradition were to evolve in that direction, there could be some commenting on that in advance of the gathering.
>
>
>
> at the same time, the thing that makes for the pressure and scarcity and overall un-OS feeling of this situation isn't really a question of when the invites are offered, but that we have developed this habit of having only one of these gatherings at once, or one per year, or more specifically that we designate just one as *the* world osonos, even though nordic and haitian and camden and oz folks and some other have had significant series of osonos gatherings.
>
>
>
> i really like the idea that these things could happen on several continents at once, so the wosonos had multiple sites. progress of tools like qiqochat offer interesting possibilities of being able to easily bumblebee across oceans. we've also been growing a tradition of spinning these things up into major productions, perhaps drifting some from the simple power of our core practice. if we met in more places at once and traveled shorter distances, maybe the hosts would feel less pressure to "work too hard" an planning and organizing these things?
>
>
>
> what if the wosonos could evolve in the direction of a kind of world-around OS carnival/retreat/learning exchange week? many invites, many parties, i mean working sessions?
>
>
>
> michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
> Pernilla ? It always amazes me how simple things complexify and happenstantial acts suddenly become ?intricate tradition.?
>
>
>
> Back in the day, long ages ago, having an Open Space on Open Space (OSONOS) seemed like a fun thing to do. I think it took me all of 4-5 hours (total) to organize it, and the ?fee? for attendance was $25. Actually, truth to tell, I did charge something like $200 for the first one on the grounds that there was some value added on my part. But after the first one, when it became quite clear that I really didn?t do a thing... we got back to something reasonable. That was $25 to cover Post-its, magic markers, News Print, etc. And when it came to figuring out where it was going to ?happen? next ? the process was indeed elaborate. Some nice soul just said, ?Come See us.? If two people had similar inclinations, but different places in mind, who ever spoke second covered the following year. No fuss, no bother and in 10 minutes time the essential arrangements were made.
>
>
>
> I don?t know when or how, but things started to drag on. I am sure a lot of folks didn?t see it the same way I did, but I have to confess that I found my two feet working if the discussion of ?next place? lasted more than about 10 minutes... being a person of very short attention span. I have been to most OSONOS?s and loved every one. But a few years ago it did seem to me that we were working much too hard. It also seemed that having THE (W)OSONOS was somehow a strangely competitive situation. Definitely working too hard!
>
>
>
> As far as I was concerned anyone, anywhere should invite whomsoever to wherever. OSONOS all over! And just to make the point I tried two such things in Camden Maine. OSONOS-by-the-Sea, I called it. I think I broke my record when it came to organizing time. If I said 3 hours, that would be stretching it. We were filled out in about 48 hours and the fee was $25, most of which I gave to Lisa for her good work. When it came to accommodations, I just provided the website of the Chamber of Commerce, and suggested that anybody who was coming might check it out and find a nice bed/meal/front porch. A local parish let us have the use of their Hall (for a small fee) ? and we were in business. Actually the fee that they proposed was so ridiculously low that I doubled it ? and we still gave most of the money to Lisa! Go figure.
>
>
>
> Maybe it is catching? I notice that Andrew Rixon is welcoming folks to Melbourne and I am looking forward to joining Mrs. Song and friends in Beijing shortly. And then of course Manila is upcoming. And what?s happening in Sweden?
>
>
>
> This seems to have gone on for a bit. And I do have a bottom line: If it ain?t fun, don?t do it. And if you are working too hard, that definitely begins to cut into the fun. So Pernilla, in an odd sort of way, I just want to get back to basics ? Would that be tradition? Make it fun. Make it simple. Open Space wherever you can, and amazing things always happen. The more the merrier!!!!
>
>
>
> Harrison
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:22 PM, Lisa Heft - via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> How wonderful, your invitation, in all its richness, Pernilla.
>
>
>
> Another two things I would like to add:
>
>
>
> 1) As always, for any team interested in hosting a WOSonOS for a future year, I have a growing living letter of lessons-learned - gathered wisdom from past host teams, that has been growing since 2001 and that I happily offer to whoever wishes to contact me. My request is that if you, dear reader, are thinking ?oh that is something I / we will ask Lisa for? then please wait until a few weeks from now, as I will in a few weeks update it with the latest Host Team?s lessons-learned.
>
>
>
> And 2) As has happened at several years in the past, including at our recent WOSonOS - you as a Host Team / Host Team representative do not have to be physically present at a WOSonOS in order to invite. Several of us have over the years acted as representatives for teams wishing to invite who were not able to physically make it. And you can make us do whatever you like, to represent you !
>
>
>
> Looking forward to the conversation,
>
> Lisa
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2015, at 12:03 PM, Pernilla Luttropp via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi all!
> At the inspiring WOSONOS in Krak?w there were some learning conversations on how this community goes about when expressing and accepting invitations from countries/places to host the upcoming WOSONOSes.
>
> In the big circle there were voices that expressed some confusion and discomfort with the process. Others said that whatever happened, they would trust the process. There was also the mentioning of ?traditions? and the ways things are usually done at a WOSONOS. And the reminder that traditions are made in every single now and ?Whatever happens is the only thing that could have?.
>
> If you are new to WOSONOS
> This is how it?s usually done (I think): the countries that wish to host the next WOSONOS makes an invitation at the closing circle of the WOSONOS and the participants are free to accept any of the invitations. The process of accepting the invitation is sometimes done by some kind of ?voting? procedure in order to agree on one place. There is often someone who reminds everybody that the only way to ?vote? in Open Space is by applying ?The law of mobility?. There is no need to only have one WOSONOS, there could be multiple since ?Wherever it happens is the right place?.
>
> My view
> I am personally very uncomfortable to use the words ?voting? or to ?make a collective decision? within an Open Space. One of the beauties with Open Space is taking responsibility for your own engagement. If we all share the same engagement we will walk in the same direction, eventually. But sometimes it takes time for things to emerge.
> If a group decides on voting there are many good methods and it?s of outmost importance for those present to understand what they are about to do, in order to make an informed decision. Is it a majority decision? How many is the majority? What happens if some vote no? Is it possible to have a ballot vote? Is it the role of the facilitator to sum it up and make the final decision? In my view, we can only express our appreciation for the invitation at the Open Space, offer help if needed and make use of the law of mobility.
>
> An invitation
> This is an invitation to try something else and maybe to let go of a ?tradition?. What if we opened up at the beginning of the process in order to see how it self organizes at the end?
> There seems to be something unclear about the ?tradition? on how to get information about who is inviting and why. If that information were transparent from the very start of the WOSONOS, it might enable more dialogue with the inviting hosts and between the hosts.
>
> The countries/places that wish to host a future WOSONOS could post this on the OSLIST and Facebook and send a gentle reminder a few weeks before the upcoming WOSONOS. The inviting hosts would then be posted on a flip chart at the WOSONOS and announced as a session when creating the bulletin board or at the evening news. As always there is the opportunity to add places, sessions and news announcements up until the closing circle, both on the spot and via other ways of communicating. This would make it easier for everyone to approach the hosts, express their delight or ask clarifying questions. It would also enable the hosts (or their representatives) to come together in a session and find out how they would like to do the invitations in the closing circle. Maybe some will wait until next year? Maybe multiple WOSONOSes in one year? Maybe in different continents at the same time? Maybe with different themes/urgent questions? Let?s embrace chaos and see what emerges! Or ?Whatever
> happens is the only thing that could have?.
>
> Since the closing circle have a more definite dead line than ?When it is over it is over?, due to flights and other time restrictions, this prolonged invitation process will open up time for more dialogues and invitations.
> But then again, as said in the closing circle in Krak?w, there is nothing like a good mess in order to learn something new J
>
> Maybe it has been tried before and in that case I?m interested to know how it worked or didn?t work.
>
> Greetings from Sweden!
> Pernilla
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/e850a577/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 16:30:59 -0500
> From: Michael Herman via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: Daniel Mezick <dan at newtechusa.net>
> Cc: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] help w/ new global calendar for trainings,
> osonos events and other learning gatherings?
> Message-ID:
> <CAD8j=QGiud3fXfr3LC2BXfhJ_o6axYWvOYX7N3QLqUehKA6uew at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> i've been in conversation with a number of folks, daniel. as i say, they
> came to me. when i saw that harold was also doing something about a
> calendar, i invited him to join us. i've since invited some others to this
> group when i realized they were missing. then i thought there might be
> others i hadn't thought of or didn't know about, so i posted to the list to
> see who else might want to post trainings to the calendar. and of course,
> here you are, the first person i forgot to add.
>
> yes, there is a bit of authorization involved. imposed by google. it's a
> one-time hurdle, per person. it's not perfect, but it's very good. and
> very worth trying. if enough people agree to post their items there, then
> it will work. if nobody likes it and doesn't add anything, it'll go away.
> having managed an OS training calendar in many manual ways for 15 years, i
> really do hope it works. i hope people will try it out.
>
> as for adding people to admin status, i do believe it's technically
> possible. the challenge is that anyone with full authorization might also
> have the authorization to turn off all the other administrators. it's one
> thing to have permission to deputize yourself and quite another to have the
> power to shut everyone else out. so the admin line needs to be drawn
> somewhere. for now it's drawn with me as an admin and everyone else as
> contributors. once we prove that it works, and see who is caring and
> contributing about it, we can all talk more about the admin permissions.
> first things first, i think.
>
> m
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Daniel Mezick <dan at newtechusa.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> It's good you are talking with Harold about the OSI-US website work. I
> missed that detail in your post.
>
> To be clear, folks can add to this calendar only after they ask you for
> authorization. Right? Am I understanding this correctly?
>
> I wonder if the Google-calendar functionality allows multiple users to
> also have Admin-authority, for example: to approve other folks to make
> edits, to approve other users to also have Admin-authority, etc.
>
> Daniel
>
> On 10/2/15 1:40 PM, Michael Herman wrote:
>
> Harold is already part of the conversation, Daniel. And the whole point of
> this particular calendar is that many people can add to it AND it can be
> embedded in any website, osius, osw, and any others and look exactly the
> same everywhere.
>
>
>
> On Friday, October 2, 2015, Daniel Mezick via OSList <
> <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
>
>
> I like the idea of an Open Space calendar. Good idea!
>
> I wonder if the Open Space Institute USA web site (
> <http://www.osius.org>http://www.osius.org) is the most appropriate and
> perhaps the best place for this kind of thing.
>
> As you point out, Harold Shinsato continues to work very, very hard on
> the overall OSI-US site, all in service to the Open Space community.
>
> Here we can see how his hard work helps OSI-US publicize Open Space
> training, not just in the USA but around the world, via the OSI-US web
> site, for anyone seeking OST training worldwide:
>
> http://www.osius.org/trainings
>
> I wonder if you might be willing to contact Harold, discuss how you might
> be able to help him and others to compile the list, add your excellent
> calendar-idea into the existing OSI-US training-page, etc.
>
>
>
> Daniel
> www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/About
>
>
>
>
> On 10/2/15 10:41 AM, Michael Herman via OSList wrote:
>
> hi all,
>
> when i rebuilt openspaceworld.org earlier this year, i let go of the
> training calendar mechanism that wasn't really working. mostly it was a
> little too much work to manage, for me and everyone else. then some folks
> showed up and said, "hey, we still want/need something!" we talked about
> that group organizing a little calendar team and producing something that
> could be embedded in various websites.
>
> in light of our osonos conversations, and also really liking what harold
> has posted at osi-us website about all the different places (not just
> "trainings") where OS practitioner learning takes place, i created a public
> google calendar for posting trainings, but also osonos events and
> stammisches(sp?) and any other sort of learning events you might want to
> share globally.
>
> IF you'd know of such events and are willing to help populate this new
> calendar, please email me directly at michael at michaelherman.com. i'll
> tell google that you're allowed to post and tell you how to do it. you can
> post one or more events you know about. when we get some stuff posted,
> we'll make the calendar public for reference, with open invitation to
> others to add next events.
>
> many thanks!
>
> michael
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
>
> --
>
> Daniel Mezick, President
>
> New Technology Solutions Inc.
>
> (203) 915 7248 (cell)
>
> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog
> <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter
> <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.
>
> Examine my new book: The Culture Game
> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the
> Agile Manager.
>
> Explore Agile Team Training
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching.
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>
>
> Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>
> Community.
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
>
>
> --
>
> Daniel Mezick, President
>
> New Technology Solutions Inc.
>
> (203) 915 7248 (cell)
>
> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog
> <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter
> <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.
>
> Examine my new book: The Culture Game
> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the Agile
> Manager.
>
> Explore Agile Team Training
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching.
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>
>
> Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>
> Community.
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/2c7161a6/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2015 19:22:40 -0500
> From: Dirk Velten via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] OSList Digest, Vol 54, Issue 2
> Message-ID: <CC481714-5B4D-4EB7-A7F0-9E77E5C174BD at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi there?
>
> I?m ?off the grid? and incommunicado for a week, maybe longer, following an abdominal surgery I just had.??It went well but it?s rather painful and requires bedrest to heal after I?m home from the hospital.??(Note to self: figure out better ways of taking time off).
>
> Be well,
> Dirk
>
> PS - for the curious: an operation I had years ago included a secondary incision besides the primary one.??That secondary incision (on my belly) herniated, and needed to be repaired.
>
> On Oct 2, 2015, at 3:05 PM, via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> Send OSList mailing list submissions to
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> oslist-request at lists.openspacetech.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> oslist-owner at lists.openspacetech.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> ??1. Re: An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS
> ?????(Eleder_BuM via OSList)
> ??2. Re: An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS
> ?????(Jan H?glund via OSList)
> ??3. Re: An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS
> ?????(Daniel Mezick via OSList)
> ??4. Re: An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS
> ?????(Michael Herman via OSList)
> ??5. help w/ new global calendar for trainings, osonos events and
> ?????other learning gatherings? (Michael Herman via OSList)
> ??6. Re: help w/ new global calendar for trainings, osonos events
> ?????and other learning gatherings? (Daniel Mezick via OSList)
> ??7. Re: help w/ new global calendar for trainings, osonos events
> ?????and other learning gatherings? (Michael Herman via OSList)
> ??8. Re: An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS
> ?????(Suzanne Daigle via OSList)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 13:52:15 +0200
> From: Eleder_BuM via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>, World wide Open Space
> Technology email list <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS
> Message-ID:
> <CAK1+_w9ikpYLdr_bmk9a--6UwDOavVuX39mu27H948f-B9KZag at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello family!
>
> I find having a local ?(yearly or every 2 years) osonos very stimulating.
> In the Basque Country we started in 2013 (bOSonOS; I knew in Krakow, that
> Berliners had done quite many bOSonOS, too) and we are having quite much
> fun. The invitation is always open to everyone. Probably we?ll ?keep doing
> bOSONOS for some years, the local community will grow and, little by little
> people from far away will like coming.
>
> Maybe one day we?ll invite for wosonos. If a good bunch of fellows are
> eager to share the task so as everyone can enjoy it. If we one day decide
> to invite, I suppose it will be quite simple. Then, if people decide to
> come *wosonosing*, great. If not, very fine too (one less thing to take
> care of :).
>
> I love attending the international ones from time to time. Enriching, as it
> makes possible meeting many new practitioners, and OS is people, as life
> is, too, people -for me, mainly
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ1J9d27aA0>-. Krakow was fantastic, as
> ever.
>
> I find myself very comfortable when attending an osonos where 30-70 people
> attend. Enough variety and not too overwhelming. More manageable.
>
> I love knowing that the OS community grows on and on, and we are getting to
> have several osonos yearly around the world. This way, when one is really
> eager to attend one, the "difficulty" would be on oneself, deciding "which
> great party will I attend now"? It seems that something like this is
> already happening, great!
>
> I suppose we take on too much responsibility and work because we assume
> that the more people come, the better (And, what about "Whoever comes...?").
>
> I find, too, that, specially when international, we tend to take on too
> much burden as invitors. For example,...
>
>
> ??- Does the fact that many people will be coming by plane make it more
> ??difficult for the invitors to manage it? Why?
> ??- The payment issue, ... does it involve too much work? What would be
> ??the cons of just allowing paying cash on the site?
> ??- Is a fancy website really required? Or could we even registrate with
> ??an email an d having attendees fill in a 3 minutes form?
> ??- Does the food standard of the meeting tend to be too "smart", "high
> ??quality",... making it more difficult for the sponsors to hold? Why?
> ??- Is organizing a parallel online wosonos really required? Knowing that
> ??the permanent Wosonos is happening all the time on the OSLIST and other
> ??places online?
> ??- Maybe some of us feel the burden of showing the world "what our nation
> ??is like?..."
>
>
> ??- *Which other details are the ones that make it specially hard
> ??convening wosonos,* (apart from taking or assuming the decisions on how
> ??to manage language diversity)*?*
>
> Having had so many wars all around the world for centuries,...Maybe it puts
> an extra psychological burden on the invitors, wherever they live? Maybe we
> tend to make a special effort to make it clear all over the world that "we
> are lovely people":)?
>
>
> Regarding the decision on how to decide "where next wosonos"? What
> are the special features of wosonos? Maybe that you?ll usually meet there
> more os-nicks than in a regular osonos (= that it?s bigger)? maybe that
> you?ll meet with people of a wider part of the planet (= that it feels more
> diverse)? Perhaps knowing that there are many people that repeat the
> experience during years and special bonds appear, and you can get to
> know/become more part of this big family?
>
> I like the original spirit and I find that we could make it that simple now
> too,...
>
> *"Some nice soul just said, ?Come See us.? If two people had similar
> inclinations, but different places in mind, who ever spoke second covered
> the following year. No fuss, no bother and in 10 minutes time the essential
> arrangements were made."*
>
>
> I assume that whoever invites is full of passion and able to host us in OS.
> And that OS, it?ll always be the same and it?ll be also very different each
> time.
>
> In fact it?s the people coming, the participants, who make the OS
> experience.
>
> In an osonos, a specially high percentage of participants know it, we are
> the ones that know it best :)! So why do we care so much (I feel) about who
> the invitors+facilitators are and sometimes seem to evaluate if they are
> really prepared to hold the event?
>
> I hope this chaotic and disperse ideas add something to the conversation.
>
> Enjoy life!
>
> Eleder
>
>
> 2015-09-30 22:42 GMT+02:00 Michael Herman via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>:
>
> thanks for raising these questions, pernilla. ?what you're proposing in
> terms of people (rather than countries!) coming forward at the beginning of
> the gathering makes great sense to me. ?these invitations can be offered at
> any time, of course, including a week or a month before the wosonos
> gathering time. ?if our tradition were to evolve in that direction, there
> could be some commenting on that in advance of the gathering.
>
> at the same time, the thing that makes for the pressure and scarcity and
> overall un-OS feeling of this situation isn't really a question of when the
> invites are offered, but that we have developed this habit of having only
> one of these gatherings at once, or one per year, or more specifically that
> we designate just one as *the* world osonos, even though nordic and haitian
> and camden and oz folks and some other have had significant series of
> osonos gatherings.
>
> i really like the idea that these things could happen on several
> continents at once, so the wosonos had multiple sites. ?progress of tools
> like qiqochat offer interesting possibilities of being able to easily
> bumblebee across oceans. ?we've also been growing a tradition of spinning
> these things up into major productions, perhaps drifting some from the
> simple power of our core practice. ?if we met in more places at once and
> traveled shorter distances, maybe the hosts would feel less pressure to
> "work too hard" an planning and organizing these things?
>
> what if the wosonos could evolve in the direction of a kind of
> world-around OS carnival/retreat/learning exchange week? ?many invites,
> many parties, i mean working sessions?
>
> michael
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
> Pernilla ? It always amazes me how simple things complexify and
> happenstantial acts suddenly become ?intricate tradition.?
>
>
>
> Back in the day, long ages ago, having an Open Space on Open Space (OSONOS)
> seemed like a ?fun thing to do. I think it took me all of 4-5 hours (total)
> to organize it, and the ?fee? for attendance was $25. Actually, truth to
> tell, I did charge something like $200 for the first one on the grounds
> that there was some value added on my part. But after ?the first one, when
> it became quite clear that I really didn?t do a thing... we got back to
> something reasonable. That was $25 to cover Post-its, magic markers, News
> Print, etc. ?And when it came to figuring out where it was going to
> ?happen? next ? the process was indeed elaborate. Some nice soul just said,
> ?Come See us.? If two people had similar inclinations, but different places
> in mind, who ever spoke second covered the following year. No fuss, no
> bother and in 10 minutes time the essential arrangements were made.
>
>
>
> I don?t know when or how, ?but things started to drag on. I am sure a lot
> of folks didn?t see it the same way I did, but I have to confess that I
> found my two feet working if the discussion of ?next place? lasted more
> than about 10 minutes... being a person of very short attention span. I
> have been to most OSONOS?s and loved every one. But a few years ago it did
> seem to me that we were working much too hard. It also seemed that having
> *THE* (W)OSONOS was somehow a strangely competitive situation. Definitely
> working too hard!
>
>
>
> As far as I was concerned anyone, anywhere should invite whomsoever to
> wherever. OSONOS all over! And just to make the point I tried two such
> things in Camden Maine. OSONOS-by-the-Sea, I called it. I think I broke my
> record when it came to organizing time. If I said 3 hours, that would be
> stretching it. We were filled out in about 48 hours and the fee was $25,
> most of which I gave to Lisa for her good work. When it came to
> accommodations, I just provided the website of the Chamber of Commerce, and
> suggested that anybody who was coming might check it out and find a nice
> bed/meal/front porch. A local parish let us have the use of their Hall (for
> a small fee) ? and we were in business. Actually the fee that they proposed
> was so ridiculously low that I doubled it ? and we still gave most of the
> money to Lisa! Go figure.
>
>
>
> Maybe it is catching? I notice that Andrew Rixon is welcoming folks to
> Melbourne and I am looking forward to joining Mrs. Song and friends in
> Beijing shortly. And then of course Manila is upcoming. And what?s
> happening in Sweden?
>
>
>
> This seems to have gone on for a bit. And I do have a bottom line: If it
> ain?t fun, don?t do it. And if you are working too hard, that definitely
> begins to cut into the fun. So Pernilla, in an odd sort of way, I just want
> to get back to basics ? Would that be tradition? Make it fun. Make it
> simple. Open Space wherever you can, and amazing things always happen. The
> more the merrier!!!!
>
>
>
> Harrison
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:22 PM, Lisa Heft - via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> How wonderful, your invitation, in all its richness, Pernilla.
>
> Another two things I would like to add:
>
> 1) As always, for any team interested in hosting a WOSonOS for a future
> year, I have a growing living letter of lessons-learned - gathered wisdom
> from past host teams, that has been growing since 2001 and that I happily
> offer to whoever wishes to contact me. My request is that if you, dear
> reader, are thinking ?oh that is something I / we will ask Lisa for? then
> please wait until a few weeks from now, as I will in a few weeks update it
> with the latest Host Team?s lessons-learned.
>
> And 2) As has happened at several years in the past, including at our
> recent WOSonOS ?- you as a Host Team / Host Team representative do not have
> to be physically present at a WOSonOS in order to invite. Several of us
> have over the years acted as representatives for teams wishing to invite
> who were not able to physically make it. And you can make us do whatever
> you like, to represent you !
>
> Looking forward to the conversation,
> Lisa
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2015, at 12:03 PM, Pernilla Luttropp via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> Hi all!
> At the inspiring WOSONOS in Krak?w there were some learning conversations
> on how this community ?goes about when expressing and accepting invitations
> from countries/places to host the upcoming WOSONOSes.
>
> In the big circle there were voices that expressed some confusion and
> discomfort with the process. Others said that whatever happened, they would
> trust the process. There was also the mentioning of ?traditions? and the
> ways things are usually done at a WOSONOS. And the reminder that traditions
> are made in every single now and ?Whatever happens is the only thing that
> could have?.
>
>
> *If you are new to WOSONOS *This is how it?s usually done (I think): the
> countries that wish to host the next WOSONOS makes an invitation at the
> closing circle of the WOSONOS and the participants are free to accept any
> of the invitations. The process of accepting the invitation is sometimes
> done by some kind of ?voting? procedure in order to agree on one place.
> There is often someone who reminds everybody that the only way to ?vote? in
> Open Space is by applying ?The law of mobility?. There is no need to only
> have one WOSONOS, there could be multiple since ?Wherever it happens is the
> right place?.
>
>
> *My view *I am personally very uncomfortable to use the words ?voting?
> or to ?make a collective decision? within an Open Space. One of the
> beauties with Open Space is taking responsibility for your own engagement.
> If we all share the same engagement we will walk in the same direction,
> eventually. But sometimes it takes time for things to emerge.
> If a group decides on voting there are many good methods and it?s of
> outmost importance for those present to understand what they are about to
> do, in order to make an informed decision. Is it a majority decision? How
> many is the majority? What happens if some vote no? Is it possible to have
> a ballot vote? Is it the role of the facilitator to sum it up and make the
> final decision? In my view, we can only express our appreciation for the
> invitation at the Open Space, offer help if needed and make use of the law
> of mobility.
>
>
> *An invitation *This is an invitation to try something else and maybe to
> let go of a ?tradition?. What if we opened up at the beginning of the
> process in order to see how it self organizes at the end?
> There seems to be something unclear about the ?tradition? on how to get
> information about who is inviting and why. If that information were
> transparent from the very start of the WOSONOS, it might enable more
> dialogue with the inviting hosts and between the hosts.
>
> The countries/places that wish to host a future WOSONOS could post this
> on the OSLIST and Facebook and send a gentle reminder a few weeks before
> the upcoming WOSONOS. The inviting hosts would then be posted on a flip
> chart at the WOSONOS and announced as a session when creating the bulletin
> board or at the evening news. As always there is the opportunity to add
> places, sessions and news announcements up until the closing circle, both
> on the spot and via other ways of communicating. This would make it easier
> for everyone to approach the hosts, express their delight or ask clarifying
> questions. It would also enable the hosts (or their representatives) to
> come together in a session and find out how they would like to do the
> invitations in the closing circle. Maybe some will wait until next year?
> Maybe multiple WOSONOSes in one year? Maybe in different continents at the
> same time? Maybe with different themes/urgent questions? Let?s embrace
> chaos and see what emerges! Or ?Whatever happens is the only thing that
> could have?.
>
> Since the closing circle have a more definite dead line than ?When it is
> over it is over?, due to flights and other time restrictions, this
> prolonged invitation process will open up time for more dialogues and
> invitations.
> But then again, as said in the closing circle in Krak?w, there is nothing
> like a good mess in order to learn something new J
>
> Maybe it has been tried before and in that case I?m interested to know
> how it worked or didn?t work.
>
> Greetings from Sweden!
> Pernilla
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/87677840/attachment.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 14:55:28 +0200
> From: Jan H?glund via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: "OSList at lists.openspacetech.org" <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS
> Message-ID: <DUB116-W76399A1D5FC1CC51DFF03ED64B0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Some thoughts ...
>
> Pernilla in Sweden wrote 30 Sep 2015:
>
> I am personally very uncomfortable to use the words ?voting? or to ?make a collective decision? within an Open Space.
>
> One of the beauties with Open Space is taking responsibility for your own engagement. If we all share the same engagement we will walk in the same direction, eventually. But sometimes it takes time for things to emerge.
>
> Yes, indeed.
>
> Here's Tom Atlee's beautiful story on How to make a Decision Without Making a Decision
>
> http://www.co-intelligence.org/I-decisionmakingwithout.html
>
> Tom writes: As I stepped out into the flooded fields I suddenly realized that
> ?????????????no decision had been made. No motion was made. No vote was taken.
> ?????????????No one checked for consensus. Nothing was announced or recorded.
> ?????????????The group just "knew" how we were going to behave ...
>
> Jan, also in Sweden
>
>
> ?? ?
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/19e4fc42/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 09:18:43 -0400
> From: Daniel Mezick via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
> Subject: Re: [OSList] An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS
> Message-ID: <560E8433.4010406 at newtechusa.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>
> I experience this thread as a fascinating study in authority. I hope you
> do, too.
>
> On 10/2/15 8:55 AM, Jan H?glund via OSList wrote:
> Some thoughts ...
>
> Pernilla in Sweden wrote 30 Sep 2015:
>
> I am personally very uncomfortable to use the words ?voting? or to
> ?make a collective decision? within an Open Space.
>
> One of the beauties with Open Space is taking responsibility for
> your own engagement. If we all share the same engagement we will walk
> in the same direction, eventually. But sometimes it takes time for
> things to emerge.
>
> Yes, indeed.
>
> Here's Tom Atlee's beautiful story on How to make a Decision Without
> Making a Decision
>
> http://www.co-intelligence.org/I-decisionmakingwithout.html
>
> Tom writes: As I stepped out into the flooded fields I suddenly
> realized that no decision had been made. No motion was made. No vote
> was taken. No one checked for consensus. Nothing was announced or
> recorded. The group just "knew" how we were going to behave ...
>
> Jan, also in Sweden
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> --
>
> Daniel Mezick, President
>
> New Technology Solutions Inc.
>
> (203) 915 7248 (cell)
>
> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog
> <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.
>
> Examine my new book:The Culture Game
> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the
> Agile Manager.
>
> Explore Agile Team Training
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching.
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>
>
> Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>Community.
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/46b149b6/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 09:29:09 -0500
> From: Michael Herman via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: Daniel Mezick <dan at newtechusa.net>, World wide Open Space
> Technology email list <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS
> Message-ID:
> <CAD8j=QFrt0E7-iONJtTO-yZLgNpTfvpJuEm6VsZh6SnPknpRSw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> thanks for the clarification about how things happened this year, lisa.
> this morning i'm wondering if/how any expectation or assumption of voting
> might play into people's decision to offer an invitation or not. ?more, i'm
> wondering why we ever started voting at all. ?when several conveners offer
> similar topics when we're facilitating, we might suggest or they just
> naturally do go off and have a chat amongst themselves to decide when the
> session will happen and what it might be called. ?often they just push the
> posted pages together and say "we're going to do these together," but then
> what happens in that corner of the room is some mixing of the various
> views. ?it seems so natural in an OS event and yet it doesn't seem like
> we've done this with various would-be conveners of osonos gatherings. ?have
> we just left it to those willing to take responsiblity for hosting to
> figure it out and tell us where the next gathering(s) will be offered? ?i'm
> thinking this might move in the direction of jan's atlee story. ?or maybe
> that's the "session" you've been convening year to year, in some way. ?if
> so, have we had an underlying requirement or assumption that there always
> be just one physical location convening at any one time? ?and is that still
> necessary?
>
> and i completely agree with you, eleder, re: doing online wosonos. ?there
> isn't any requirement at all to do any parallel convening. ?there is some
> value and maybe also some responsibility in the way of telling the story,
> sharing what's happening. ?usually this happens by ppts typing up notes.
> many times (vancouver, melbourne, swenmark and maybe others) we have been
> able to share the notes online at the same time as they are posted on the
> wall onsite. ?always, new conversations have sprung up around those
> postings. ?this acknowledges and feeds a larger practice circle than can
> gather in any one location and makes what happens in that location even
> more importance and value, i think. ?the simplest way of sharing those
> notes would be posting to the oslist. ?we've done it in other ways, in
> wikis and such.
>
> this year we offered some options at qiqochat, as part of learning our way
> into that platform, as a community. ?i think of this more like posting a
> project/topic at wosonos than being any central part of the hosting team or
> task. ?i think there is something worth exploring, as a community, in this
> realm of distributed collaboration as more and more people in agile and
> other businesses are learning to work in this way. ?again, this is learning
> is something i see can happen in the context of osonos events, for anyone
> who wants to join it (from anywhere), rather than a requirement in creating
> an osonos event. ?osonos is about learning while doing, ya?
>
> thanks, too, eleder, for reminding about basque country and berlin osonos
> events. ?that must put us up toward 60 gatherings in 20+ years.
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Daniel Mezick via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> I experience this thread as a fascinating study in authority. I hope you
> do, too.
>
> On 10/2/15 8:55 AM, Jan H?glund via OSList wrote:
>
> Some thoughts ...
>
> Pernilla in Sweden wrote 30 Sep 2015:
>
> I am personally very uncomfortable to use the words ?voting? or to ?make
> a collective decision? within an Open Space.
>
> One of the beauties with Open Space is taking responsibility for your
> own engagement. If we all share the same engagement we will walk in the
> same direction, eventually. But sometimes it takes time for things to
> emerge.
>
> Yes, indeed.
>
> Here's Tom Atlee's beautiful story on How to make a Decision Without
> Making a Decision
>
> http://www.co-intelligence.org/I-decisionmakingwithout.html
>
> Tom writes: As I stepped out into the flooded fields I suddenly realized
> that no decision had been made. No motion was made. No vote was taken. No
> one checked for consensus. Nothing was announced or recorded. The group
> just "knew" how we were going to behave ...
>
> Jan, also in Sweden
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
>
> --
>
> Daniel Mezick, President
>
> New Technology Solutions Inc.
>
> (203) 915 7248 (cell)
>
> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog
> <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter
> <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.
>
> Examine my new book: ?The Culture Game
> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the Agile
> Manager.
>
> Explore Agile Team Training
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching.
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>
>
> Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>
> Community.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/bbf00809/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 09:41:53 -0500
> From: Michael Herman via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: OSLIST <OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: [OSList] help w/ new global calendar for trainings, osonos
> events and other learning gatherings?
> Message-ID:
> <CAD8j=QHwcd=XOD+FBCQZs6R4-wV+=oJJ_Y2MMz6P3P8YE3W-Bw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> hi all,
>
> when i rebuilt openspaceworld.org earlier this year, i let go of the
> training calendar mechanism that wasn't really working. ?mostly it was a
> little too much work to manage, for me and everyone else. ?then some folks
> showed up and said, "hey, we still want/need something!" we talked about
> that group organizing a little calendar team and producing something that
> could be embedded in various websites.
>
> in light of our osonos conversations, and also really liking what harold
> has posted at osi-us website about all the different places (not just
> "trainings") where OS practitioner learning takes place, i created a public
> google calendar for posting trainings, but also osonos events and
> stammisches(sp?) and any other sort of learning events you might want to
> share globally.
>
> IF you'd know of such events and are willing to help populate this new
> calendar, please email me directly at michael at michaelherman.com. ?i'll tell
> google that you're allowed to post and tell you how to do it. ?you can post
> one or more events you know about. ?when we get some stuff posted, we'll
> make the calendar public for reference, with open invitation to others to
> add next events.
>
> many thanks!
>
> michael
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/7528fbee/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:16:43 -0400
> From: Daniel Mezick via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
> Subject: Re: [OSList] help w/ new global calendar for trainings,
> osonos events and other learning gatherings?
> Message-ID: <560EADEB.40001 at newtechusa.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>
> Hi Michael,
>
>
> I like the idea of an Open Space calendar. Good idea!
>
> I wonder if the Open Space Institute USA web site (http://www.osius.org)
> is the most appropriate and perhaps the best place for this kind of thing.
>
> As you point out, Harold Shinsato continues to work very, very hard on
> the overall OSI-US site, all in service to the Open Space community.
>
> Here we can see how his hard work helps OSI-US publicize Open Space
> training, not just in the USA but around the world, via the OSI-US web
> site, for anyone seeking OST training worldwide:
>
> http://www.osius.org/trainings
>
> I wonder if you might be willing to contact Harold, discuss how you
> might be able to help him and others to compile the list, add your
> excellent calendar-idea into the existing OSI-US training-page, etc.
>
>
>
> Daniel
> www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/About
>
>
>
>
> On 10/2/15 10:41 AM, Michael Herman via OSList wrote:
> hi all,
>
> when i rebuilt openspaceworld.org <http://openspaceworld.org> earlier
> this year, i let go of the training calendar mechanism that wasn't
> really working. ?mostly it was a little too much work to manage, for
> me and everyone else. ?then some folks showed up and said, "hey, we
> still want/need something!" we talked about that group organizing a
> little calendar team and producing something that could be embedded in
> various websites.
>
> in light of our osonos conversations, and also really liking what
> harold has posted at osi-us website about all the different places
> (not just "trainings") where OS practitioner learning takes place, i
> created a public google calendar for posting trainings, but also
> osonos events and stammisches(sp?) and any other sort of learning
> events you might want to share globally.
>
> IF you'd know of such events and are willing to help populate this new
> calendar, please email me directly at michael at michaelherman.com
> <mailto:michael at michaelherman.com>. ?i'll tell google that you're
> allowed to post and tell you how to do it. ?you can post one or more
> events you know about. ?when we get some stuff posted, we'll make the
> calendar public for reference, with open invitation to others to add
> next events.
>
> many thanks!
>
> michael
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> --
>
> Daniel Mezick, President
>
> New Technology Solutions Inc.
>
> (203) 915 7248 (cell)
>
> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog
> <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.
>
> Examine my new book:The Culture Game
> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the
> Agile Manager.
>
> Explore Agile Team Training
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching.
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>
>
> Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>Community.
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/129a1833/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 12:40:13 -0500
> From: Michael Herman via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: Daniel Mezick <dan at newtechusa.net>, World wide Open Space
> Technology email list <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] help w/ new global calendar for trainings,
> osonos events and other learning gatherings?
> Message-ID:
> <CAD8j=QGSH9d7Y85k133ETY1X0SyvLKaZsN08L9gBRGfoNoSGng at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Harold is already part of the conversation, Daniel. And the whole point of
> this particular calendar is that many people can add to it AND it can be
> embedded in any website, osius, osw, and any others and look exactly the
> same everywhere.
>
>
>
> On Friday, October 2, 2015, Daniel Mezick via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Michael,
>
>
> I like the idea of an Open Space calendar. Good idea!
>
> I wonder if the Open Space Institute USA web site (http://www.osius.org)
> is the most appropriate and perhaps the best place for this kind of thing.
>
> As you point out, Harold Shinsato continues to work very, very hard on the
> overall OSI-US site, all in service to the Open Space community.
>
> Here we can see how his hard work helps OSI-US publicize Open Space
> training, not just in the USA but around the world, via the OSI-US web
> site, for anyone seeking OST training worldwide:
>
> http://www.osius.org/trainings
>
> I wonder if you might be willing to contact Harold, discuss how you might
> be able to help him and others to compile the list, add your excellent
> calendar-idea into the existing OSI-US training-page, etc.
>
>
>
> Daniel
> www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/About
>
>
>
>
> On 10/2/15 10:41 AM, Michael Herman via OSList wrote:
>
> hi all,
>
> when i rebuilt openspaceworld.org earlier this year, i let go of the
> training calendar mechanism that wasn't really working. ?mostly it was a
> little too much work to manage, for me and everyone else. ?then some folks
> showed up and said, "hey, we still want/need something!" we talked about
> that group organizing a little calendar team and producing something that
> could be embedded in various websites.
>
> in light of our osonos conversations, and also really liking what harold
> has posted at osi-us website about all the different places (not just
> "trainings") where OS practitioner learning takes place, i created a public
> google calendar for posting trainings, but also osonos events and
> stammisches(sp?) and any other sort of learning events you might want to
> share globally.
>
> IF you'd know of such events and are willing to help populate this new
> calendar, please email me directly at michael at michaelherman.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','michael at michaelherman.com');>. ?i'll tell
> google that you're allowed to post and tell you how to do it. ?you can post
> one or more events you know about. ?when we get some stuff posted, we'll
> make the calendar public for reference, with open invitation to others to
> add next events.
>
> many thanks!
>
> michael
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','OSList at lists.openspacetech.org');>
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org');>
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
>
> --
>
> Daniel Mezick, President
>
> New Technology Solutions Inc.
>
> (203) 915 7248 (cell)
>
> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog
> <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter
> <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.
>
> Examine my new book: ?The Culture Game
> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the Agile
> Manager.
>
> Explore Agile Team Training
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching.
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>
>
> Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>
> Community.
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/77180cb1/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 15:16:10 -0400
> From: Suzanne Daigle via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: Eleder_BuM <eleder.aurtenetxe at gmail.com>, World wide Open Space
> Technology email list <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] An invitation for future invitations to WOSONOS
> Message-ID:
> <CAJh+fLCLk6UrtGTbGS1fTWaWjVcOG1R6Oexzx2wuZaKPoCN1Yw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dearest Eleder,
>
> How I love all that you've captured in your note most especially the spirit
> of invitation and the joy of attending. The fact that there are more and
> more international gatherings, big and small, training and reunions, is so
> wonderful.
>
> Having co-hosted a WOSonOS in Florida with a wonderful gang of University
> of South Florida students and others, I know the love that went into the
> welcome and the planning. I felt the same from other host countries where I
> attended getting a chance to experience their culture through their
> preparation, feeling the anticipatory joy they had in receiving us. ?It was
> in those little touches that I felt it most, local foods, the Open Space
> posters in their language, their help as to where to stay (so appreciated
> when I was going to a foreign country) and their recommendations on
> restaurants or perhaps a few places to visit. ?No one could argue that some
> of these things have nothing to do with Open Space, nor are they required
> but I would never want to deprive the hosts of making us feel special and
> welcome through those littles touches. At the same time, it can be just as
> simple as the way Harrison describes it. I totally love those too.
>
> In our case, the preparations included a few training events and a
> community Open Space a few months before WOSonOS. All of this seeded an
> open space way of doing and being that continues to sprout in so many
> surprising ways years later in the Tampa Bay region and beyond. Most
> important of all are the spaces that were opened inside each of us.
>
> That said, I have always felt that those preparations should never distract
> or predetermine what happens in Open Space nor should they be a burden or
> put pressure on people to do the same.
>
> Life is a mix and in the spirit of self-organizing, I think there's room
> for less is more and sometimes a bit more than less. Up to the hosts to
> decide, there is no right or wrong, better or less. ?Reminds me of the Law
> of 2 Feet.
>
> I sure hope my two feet take me to Manilla cause I want to walk those
> hundred miles so that we can "hold the whole wide world in our hands",
> "whistling all the while". In case you missed it, I fell in love with this
> video by Sharon Joy Chao. Keep humming it all the time. Whether there in
> spirit or in person, we feel your welcome and spirit of invitation!
>
> https://animoto.com/play/XvXVDcOKXjGo0jb1SkwqGQ
>
> Suzanne
>
> Suzanne Daigle
> Open Space Facilitator
> NuFocus Strategic Group
>
> FL 941-359-8877
> Cell: 203-722-2009
> www.nufocusgroup.com
> s.daigle at nufocusgroup.com
> Twitter @Daiglesuz
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 7:52 AM, Eleder_BuM via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> Hello family!
>
> I find having a local ?(yearly or every 2 years) osonos very stimulating.
> In the Basque Country we started in 2013 (bOSonOS; I knew in Krakow, that
> Berliners had done quite many bOSonOS, too) and we are having quite much
> fun. The invitation is always open to everyone. Probably we?ll ?keep doing
> bOSONOS for some years, the local community will grow and, little by little
> people from far away will like coming.
>
> Maybe one day we?ll invite for wosonos. If a good bunch of fellows are
> eager to share the task so as everyone can enjoy it. If we one day decide
> to invite, I suppose it will be quite simple. Then, if people decide to
> come *wosonosing*, great. If not, very fine too (one less thing to take
> care of :).
>
> I love attending the international ones from time to time. Enriching, as
> it makes possible meeting many new practitioners, and OS is people, as life
> is, too, people -for me, mainly
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ1J9d27aA0>-. Krakow was fantastic, as
> ever.
>
> I find myself very comfortable when attending an osonos where 30-70 people
> attend. Enough variety and not too overwhelming. More manageable.
>
> I love knowing that the OS community grows on and on, and we are getting
> to have several osonos yearly around the world. This way, when one is
> really eager to attend one, the "difficulty" would be on oneself, deciding
> "which great party will I attend now"? It seems that something like this is
> already happening, great!
>
> I suppose we take on too much responsibility and work because we assume
> that the more people come, the better (And, what about "Whoever comes...?").
>
> I find, too, that, specially when international, we tend to take on too
> much burden as invitors. For example,...
>
>
> ??- Does the fact that many people will be coming by plane make it more
> ??difficult for the invitors to manage it? Why?
> ??- The payment issue, ... does it involve too much work? What would be
> ??the cons of just allowing paying cash on the site?
> ??- Is a fancy website really required? Or could we even registrate with
> ??an email an d having attendees fill in a 3 minutes form?
> ??- Does the food standard of the meeting tend to be too "smart", "high
> ??quality",... making it more difficult for the sponsors to hold? Why?
> ??- Is organizing a parallel online wosonos really required? Knowing
> ??that the permanent Wosonos is happening all the time on the OSLIST and
> ??other places online?
> ??- Maybe some of us feel the burden of showing the world "what our
> ??nation is like?..."
>
>
> ??- *Which other details are the ones that make it specially hard
> ??convening wosonos,* (apart from taking or assuming the decisions on
> ??how to manage language diversity)*?*
>
> Having had so many wars all around the world for centuries,...Maybe it
> puts an extra psychological burden on the invitors, wherever they live?
> Maybe we tend to make a special effort to make it clear all over the world
> that "we are lovely people":)?
>
>
> Regarding the decision on how to decide "where next wosonos"? What
> are the special features of wosonos? Maybe that you?ll usually meet there
> more os-nicks than in a regular osonos (= that it?s bigger)? maybe that
> you?ll meet with people of a wider part of the planet (= that it feels more
> diverse)? Perhaps knowing that there are many people that repeat the
> experience during years and special bonds appear, and you can get to
> know/become more part of this big family?
>
> I like the original spirit and I find that we could make it that simple
> now too,...
>
> *"Some nice soul just said, ?Come See us.? If two people had similar
> inclinations, but different places in mind, who ever spoke second covered
> the following year. No fuss, no bother and in 10 minutes time the essential
> arrangements were made."*
>
>
> I assume that whoever invites is full of passion and able to host us in
> OS. And that OS, it?ll always be the same and it?ll be also very different
> each time.
>
> In fact it?s the people coming, the participants, who make the OS
> experience.
>
> In an osonos, a specially high percentage of participants know it, we are
> the ones that know it best :)! So why do we care so much (I feel) about who
> the invitors+facilitators are and sometimes seem to evaluate if they are
> really prepared to hold the event?
>
> I hope this chaotic and disperse ideas add something to the conversation.
>
> Enjoy life!
>
> Eleder
>
>
> 2015-09-30 22:42 GMT+02:00 Michael Herman via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>:
>
> thanks for raising these questions, pernilla. ?what you're proposing in
> terms of people (rather than countries!) coming forward at the beginning of
> the gathering makes great sense to me. ?these invitations can be offered at
> any time, of course, including a week or a month before the wosonos
> gathering time. ?if our tradition were to evolve in that direction, there
> could be some commenting on that in advance of the gathering.
>
> at the same time, the thing that makes for the pressure and scarcity and
> overall un-OS feeling of this situation isn't really a question of when the
> invites are offered, but that we have developed this habit of having only
> one of these gatherings at once, or one per year, or more specifically that
> we designate just one as *the* world osonos, even though nordic and haitian
> and camden and oz folks and some other have had significant series of
> osonos gatherings.
>
> i really like the idea that these things could happen on several
> continents at once, so the wosonos had multiple sites. ?progress of tools
> like qiqochat offer interesting possibilities of being able to easily
> bumblebee across oceans. ?we've also been growing a tradition of spinning
> these things up into major productions, perhaps drifting some from the
> simple power of our core practice. ?if we met in more places at once and
> traveled shorter distances, maybe the hosts would feel less pressure to
> "work too hard" an planning and organizing these things?
>
> what if the wosonos could evolve in the direction of a kind of
> world-around OS carnival/retreat/learning exchange week? ?many invites,
> many parties, i mean working sessions?
>
> michael
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
> Pernilla ? It always amazes me how simple things complexify and
> happenstantial acts suddenly become ?intricate tradition.?
>
>
>
> Back in the day, long ages ago, having an Open Space on Open Space
> (OSONOS) seemed like a ?fun thing to do. I think it took me all of 4-5
> hours (total) to organize it, and the ?fee? for attendance was $25.
> Actually, truth to tell, I did charge something like $200 for the first one
> on the grounds that there was some value added on my part. But after ?the
> first one, when it became quite clear that I really didn?t do a thing... we
> got back to something reasonable. That was $25 to cover Post-its, magic
> markers, News Print, etc. ?And when it came to figuring out where it was
> going to ?happen? next ? the process was indeed elaborate. Some nice soul
> just said, ?Come See us.? If two people had similar inclinations, but
> different places in mind, who ever spoke second covered the following year.
> No fuss, no bother and in 10 minutes time the essential arrangements were
> made.
>
>
>
> I don?t know when or how, ?but things started to drag on. I am sure a lot
> of folks didn?t see it the same way I did, but I have to confess that I
> found my two feet working if the discussion of ?next place? lasted more
> than about 10 minutes... being a person of very short attention span. I
> have been to most OSONOS?s and loved every one. But a few years ago it did
> seem to me that we were working much too hard. It also seemed that having
> *THE* (W)OSONOS was somehow a strangely competitive situation. Definitely
> working too hard!
>
>
>
> As far as I was concerned anyone, anywhere should invite whomsoever to
> wherever. OSONOS all over! And just to make the point I tried two such
> things in Camden Maine. OSONOS-by-the-Sea, I called it. I think I broke my
> record when it came to organizing time. If I said 3 hours, that would be
> stretching it. We were filled out in about 48 hours and the fee was $25,
> most of which I gave to Lisa for her good work. When it came to
> accommodations, I just provided the website of the Chamber of Commerce, and
> suggested that anybody who was coming might check it out and find a nice
> bed/meal/front porch. A local parish let us have the use of their Hall (for
> a small fee) ? and we were in business. Actually the fee that they proposed
> was so ridiculously low that I doubled it ? and we still gave most of the
> money to Lisa! Go figure.
>
>
>
> Maybe it is catching? I notice that Andrew Rixon is welcoming folks to
> Melbourne and I am looking forward to joining Mrs. Song and friends in
> Beijing shortly. And then of course Manila is upcoming. And what?s
> happening in Sweden?
>
>
>
> This seems to have gone on for a bit. And I do have a bottom line: If it
> ain?t fun, don?t do it. And if you are working too hard, that definitely
> begins to cut into the fun. So Pernilla, in an odd sort of way, I just want
> to get back to basics ? Would that be tradition? Make it fun. Make it
> simple. Open Space wherever you can, and amazing things always happen. The
> more the merrier!!!!
>
>
>
> Harrison
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 2:22 PM, Lisa Heft - via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> How wonderful, your invitation, in all its richness, Pernilla.
>
> Another two things I would like to add:
>
> 1) As always, for any team interested in hosting a WOSonOS for a future
> year, I have a growing living letter of lessons-learned - gathered wisdom
> from past host teams, that has been growing since 2001 and that I happily
> offer to whoever wishes to contact me. My request is that if you, dear
> reader, are thinking ?oh that is something I / we will ask Lisa for? then
> please wait until a few weeks from now, as I will in a few weeks update it
> with the latest Host Team?s lessons-learned.
>
> And 2) As has happened at several years in the past, including at our
> recent WOSonOS ?- you as a Host Team / Host Team representative do not have
> to be physically present at a WOSonOS in order to invite. Several of us
> have over the years acted as representatives for teams wishing to invite
> who were not able to physically make it. And you can make us do whatever
> you like, to represent you !
>
> Looking forward to the conversation,
> Lisa
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2015, at 12:03 PM, Pernilla Luttropp via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> Hi all!
> At the inspiring WOSONOS in Krak?w there were some learning
> conversations on how this community ?goes about when expressing and
> accepting invitations from countries/places to host the upcoming WOSONOSes.
>
> In the big circle there were voices that expressed some confusion and
> discomfort with the process. Others said that whatever happened, they would
> trust the process. There was also the mentioning of ?traditions? and the
> ways things are usually done at a WOSONOS. And the reminder that traditions
> are made in every single now and ?Whatever happens is the only thing that
> could have?.
>
>
> *If you are new to WOSONOS *This is how it?s usually done (I think):
> the countries that wish to host the next WOSONOS makes an invitation at the
> closing circle of the WOSONOS and the participants are free to accept any
> of the invitations. The process of accepting the invitation is sometimes
> done by some kind of ?voting? procedure in order to agree on one place.
> There is often someone who reminds everybody that the only way to ?vote? in
> Open Space is by applying ?The law of mobility?. There is no need to only
> have one WOSONOS, there could be multiple since ?Wherever it happens is the
> right place?.
>
>
> *My view *I am personally very uncomfortable to use the words ?voting?
> or to ?make a collective decision? within an Open Space. One of the
> beauties with Open Space is taking responsibility for your own engagement.
> If we all share the same engagement we will walk in the same direction,
> eventually. But sometimes it takes time for things to emerge.
> If a group decides on voting there are many good methods and it?s of
> outmost importance for those present to understand what they are about to
> do, in order to make an informed decision. Is it a majority decision? How
> many is the majority? What happens if some vote no? Is it possible to have
> a ballot vote? Is it the role of the facilitator to sum it up and make the
> final decision? In my view, we can only express our appreciation for the
> invitation at the Open Space, offer help if needed and make use of the law
> of mobility.
>
>
> *An invitation *This is an invitation to try something else and maybe
> to let go of a ?tradition?. What if we opened up at the beginning of the
> process in order to see how it self organizes at the end?
> There seems to be something unclear about the ?tradition? on how to get
> information about who is inviting and why. If that information were
> transparent from the very start of the WOSONOS, it might enable more
> dialogue with the inviting hosts and between the hosts.
>
> The countries/places that wish to host a future WOSONOS could post this
> on the OSLIST and Facebook and send a gentle reminder a few weeks before
> the upcoming WOSONOS. The inviting hosts would then be posted on a flip
> chart at the WOSONOS and announced as a session when creating the bulletin
> board or at the evening news. As always there is the opportunity to add
> places, sessions and news announcements up until the closing circle, both
> on the spot and via other ways of communicating. This would make it easier
> for everyone to approach the hosts, express their delight or ask clarifying
> questions. It would also enable the hosts (or their representatives) to
> come together in a session and find out how they would like to do the
> invitations in the closing circle. Maybe some will wait until next year?
> Maybe multiple WOSONOSes in one year? Maybe in different continents at the
> same time? Maybe with different themes/urgent questions? Let?s embrace
> chaos and see what emerges! Or ?Whatever happens is the only thing that
> could have?.
>
> Since the closing circle have a more definite dead line than ?When it is
> over it is over?, due to flights and other time restrictions, this
> prolonged invitation process will open up time for more dialogues and
> invitations.
> But then again, as said in the closing circle in Krak?w, there is
> nothing like a good mess in order to learn something new J
>
> Maybe it has been tried before and in that case I?m interested to know
> how it worked or didn?t work.
>
> Greetings from Sweden!
> Pernilla
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/9a5165ea/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of OSList Digest, Vol 54, Issue 2
> *************************************
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: not available
> Type: text/enriched
> Size: 61529 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/b3ca3665/attachment-0001.bin>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2015 22:06:37 -0700
> From: Lisa Heft - via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: OSLIST <OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: [OSList] Workshops in California, USA - The Power of Pre-Work
> (November); The World Cafe Learning Workshop -and- The Open Space
> Learning Workshop (December) 2015
> Message-ID: <0C316DE3-D5A6-41BC-A852-76618F9E1AD5 at openingspace.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Hello, dear colleagues -
>
> Thank you Michael and Harold for creating more spaces for us to share about the learning opportunities. As these are developing - and because I notice that people come into information via all different avenues, I will also share news of these workshops here on the list.
>
> This is an invitation to three facilitation workshops happening in California.
> Please contact me at lisaheft at openingspace.net for more information and to register.
>
> For those of you living in other regions, do know that the registration fees for any workshop I host is whatever you each individually can afford, so if by chance you can afford the travel and accommodation costs I welcome you to join us for these West Coast USA workshops.
>
> ___Contact me for more information about content, schedule and pricing_____
>
> The Power of Pre-Work
> Thursday and Friday November 12-13 - Oakland, California USA
>
> In this interactive workshop we explore all the interconnected elements that support productivity and engagement in face-to-face dialogue event, both for Open Space and for other conversation-based facilitated processes. From the design of the physical space, to thinking about the strategy and nature of invitation, to documentation design and more. For all levels of experience - however you will get more out of this workshop if you already facilitate.
>
> ___
>
> The World Cafe Learning Workshop
> Thursday and Friday December 3-4 - Oakland, California USA
>
> Some of you who do Open Space have also found World Cafe to be very useful and productive. Come join me to explore and share lessons-learned about this wonderful process. As you may know, these participant-driven forms can be deceptively simple. But just as for Open Space: To really use them well, it is essential to understand what is below the surface: when they are useful and when not, how your intervening can help or negatively impact the participants? work, and what makes useful, clear, strategic questions. For those of you new to this process as well as those who have experience using it.
>
> ___
>
> The Open Space Learning Workshop
> Saturday and Sunday December 12-13 - Los Angeles, California USA
> With an optional evening conversation on December 12 about our work using dialogue processes within organizations.
>
> Join me to share ideas, lessons-learned and experiences about facilitating (and being in) Open Space. Is what some people may have heard about or experienced really Open Space? What holds together as Open Space? When is it productive, and when is it the wrong method to use entirely? How can you reduce participants? potential? Learn how this really interesting method is used around the world for everything from strategic planning to building an airplane door to conflict transformation. For facilitators new to Open Space as well as those who have experience using it.
>
> ___
>
> I look forward to sharing learning with you,
> Lisa
>
> Lisa Heft
> Consultant, Facilitator, Educator
> Opening Space
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151002/b62d4869/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 09:26:00 -0400
> From: Daniel Mezick via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
> Subject: [OSList] The Tyranny of Structurelessness
> Message-ID: <560FD768.6020608 at newtechusa.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS
> by Jo Freeman aka Joreen
>
> I find this essay extremely interesting. I hope you do, too.
>
>
>
> Here is a pertinent quote, from the essay:
> ".../the idea of "structurelessness" does not prevent the formation of
> informal structures, only formal ones."
>
> /
> Circa 1970. Context: the women's movement. Quick summary of the main
> points: from the essay...
>
> * /During the years in which the women's liberation movement has been
> taking shape, a great emphasis has been placed on what are called
> leaderless, structureless groups as the main -- if not sole --
> organizational form of the movement. /
>
> * /The idea of "structurelessness," however, has moved from a healthy
> counter to those tendencies, to becoming a goddess in its own right./
>
> * /Contrary to what we would like to believe, there is no such thing
> as a structureless group. /
>
> * /This means that to strive for a structureless group is as useful,
> and as deceptive, as to aim at an "objective" news story,
> "value-free" social science, or a "free" economy. A "laissez faire"
> group is about as realistic as a "laissez faire" society; the idea
> becomes a smokescreen for the strong or the lucky to establish
> unquestioned hegemony over others. /
>
> * /This hegemony can be so easily established because the idea of
> "structurelessness" does not prevent the formation of informal
> structures, only formal ones. /
>
> * /For everyone to have the opportunity to be involved in a given
> group and to participate in its activities, the structure must be
> explicit, not implicit. /
>
> * /It is this informal structure, particularly in Unstructured groups,
> which forms the basis for elites./
>
>
>
> Just in case you have not yet encountered the full text of this essay,
> here it is:
>
> THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS
> by Jo Freeman aka Joreen
> http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
> http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about
> http://www.DanielMezick.com
> 203 915 7248
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151003/d28c24d2/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 11:18:58 -0400
> From: Rosa Zubizarreta via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: Daniel Mezick <dan at newtechusa.net>, World wide Open Space
> Technology email list <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of Structurelessness
> Message-ID:
> <CAHp709eq+ZPfaT2bZPdwGH898-mhfaiTEv4j6yjbv2MKAo+20g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Daniel,
>
> Yes, this is a key piece... I see it as very similar in some ways to what
> Ken Wilber wrote later,
> about the "shadow side of the green meme". (Each meme has its own shadow,
> as well as its own gift...)
>
> So, I love "green". I love circles, I love non-hierarchy, etc.
> And, part of the "shadow side of the green meme" is how ideologically
> anti-structure it can become...
> to the point where some people may not even agree that OST does, in fact,
> offer a very simple and effective structure.
>
> By way contrast, think of a situation where group of people (who don't know
> about OST, and/or, who are having a power struggle around "which process to
> use", and/or.... ) might easily spending a whole weekend arguing *about *"how
> to self-organize ourselves"... with a great deal more pain and frustration
> and a great deal less value.
>
> whereas, instead, IF someone knows about OST, and, a clear invitation has
> been extended, and, there is enough trust/suspension of disbelief so that
> participants are willing to enter into that format,
>
> then, we end up with a very simple and elegant structure that allows people
> to self-organize beautifully....
>
> at least that's how i see it! :-)
>
> with all best wishes,
>
> Rosa
>
>
>
>
>
> *Rosa Zubizarreta*
>
>
>
> *Developing Participatory and Co-intelligent LeadershipAuthor of From
> Conflict to Creative Collaboration <http://www.conflict2creativity.com>*
>
> *For more resources and learning opportunities, visit**www.DiaPraxis.com
> <http://www.DiaPraxis.com>*
>
> On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Daniel Mezick via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS
> by Jo Freeman aka Joreen
>
> I find this essay extremely interesting. I hope you do, too.
>
>
>
> Here is a pertinent quote, from the essay:
> "...
>
> *the idea of "structurelessness" does not prevent the formation of
> informal structures, only formal ones." *
> Circa 1970. Context: the women's movement. Quick summary of the main
> points: from the essay...
>
>
> - *During the years in which the women's liberation movement has been
> taking shape, a great emphasis has been placed on what are called
> leaderless, structureless groups as the main -- if not sole --
> organizational form of the movement. *
>
>
> - *The idea of "structurelessness," however, has moved from a healthy
> counter to those tendencies, to becoming a goddess in its own right.*
>
>
> - *Contrary to what we would like to believe, there is no such thing
> as a structureless group. *
>
>
> - *This means that to strive for a structureless group is as useful,
> and as deceptive, as to aim at an "objective" news story, "value-free"
> social science, or a "free" economy. A "laissez faire" group is about as
> realistic as a "laissez faire" society; the idea becomes a smokescreen for
> the strong or the lucky to establish unquestioned hegemony over others. *
>
>
> - * This hegemony can be so easily established because the idea of
> "structurelessness" does not prevent the formation of informal structures,
> only formal ones. *
>
>
> - * For everyone to have the opportunity to be involved in a given
> group and to participate in its activities, the structure must be explicit,
> not implicit. *
>
>
> - * It is this informal structure, particularly in Unstructured
> groups, which forms the basis for elites.*
>
>
>
> Just in case you have not yet encountered the full text of this essay,
> here it is:
>
> THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS
> by Jo Freeman aka Joreen
> http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
> http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about
> http://www.DanielMezick.com
> 203 915 7248
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151003/ed74dfac/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2015 14:40:17 -0400
> From: Harrison Owen via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: "'Daniel Mezick'" <dan at newtechusa.net>, "'World wide Open Space
> Technology email list'" <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of Structurelessness
> Message-ID: <003e01d0fe0a$f67e8840$e37b98c0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> And just to churn the pot a bit.... open some space??? An off thought which
> has pestered me recently. Goes like this. "Structure is only a figment of
> our imagination. It is our "take" of reality, a flash frame of the passing
> scene. In our minds it looks solid, even unchanging. But actually it is just
> a momentary view of the ongoing flow." Or something.
>
>
>
> Harrison
>
>
>
> From: OSList [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of
> Daniel Mezick via OSList
> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 9:26 AM
> To: oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
> Subject: [OSList] The Tyranny of Structurelessness
>
>
>
> THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS
> by Jo Freeman aka Joreen
>
> I find this essay extremely interesting. I hope you do, too.
>
>
>
> Here is a pertinent quote, from the essay:
> "...the idea of "structurelessness" does not prevent the formation of
> informal structures, only formal ones."
>
>
> Circa 1970. Context: the women's movement. Quick summary of the main points:
> from the essay...
>
> * During the years in which the women's liberation movement has been
> taking shape, a great emphasis has been placed on what are called
> leaderless, structureless groups as the main -- if not sole --
> organizational form of the movement.
>
> * The idea of "structurelessness," however, has moved from a healthy
> counter to those tendencies, to becoming a goddess in its own right.
>
> * Contrary to what we would like to believe, there is no such thing as
> a structureless group.
>
> * This means that to strive for a structureless group is as useful,
> and as deceptive, as to aim at an "objective" news story, "value-free"
> social science, or a "free" economy. A "laissez faire" group is about as
> realistic as a "laissez faire" society; the idea becomes a smokescreen for
> the strong or the lucky to establish unquestioned hegemony over others.
>
> * This hegemony can be so easily established because the idea of
> "structurelessness" does not prevent the formation of informal structures,
> only formal ones.
>
> * For everyone to have the opportunity to be involved in a given group
> and to participate in its activities, the structure must be explicit, not
> implicit.
>
> * It is this informal structure, particularly in Unstructured groups,
> which forms the basis for elites.
>
>
>
> Just in case you have not yet encountered the full text of this essay, here
> it is:
>
> THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS
> by Jo Freeman aka Joreen
> http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
> http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about
> http://www.DanielMezick.com
> 203 915 7248
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151003/02c2b6e1/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 15:47:40 -0300
> From: JL Walker via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To: "'Rosa Zubizarreta'" <rosa at diapraxis.com>, "'World wide Open Space
> Technology email list'" <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>, "'Daniel
> Mezick'" <dan at newtechusa.net>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of Structurelessness
> Message-ID: <009c01d0fe0b$fb48c510$f1da4f30$@terra.cl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I was thinking that maybe the antidote to the eventual tyranny of structurelessness is to open space, again and again, until true democracy can emerge.
>
>
>
> Juan Luis
>
>
>
> De: OSList [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] En nombre de Rosa Zubizarreta via OSList
> Enviado el: s?bado, 03 de octubre de 2015 12:19
> Para: Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space Technology email list
> Asunto: Re: [OSList] The Tyranny of Structurelessness
>
>
>
> Hi Daniel,
>
> Yes, this is a key piece... I see it as very similar in some ways to what Ken Wilber wrote later,
>
> about the "shadow side of the green meme". (Each meme has its own shadow, as well as its own gift...)
>
> So, I love "green". I love circles, I love non-hierarchy, etc.
> And, part of the "shadow side of the green meme" is how ideologically anti-structure it can become...
>
> to the point where some people may not even agree that OST does, in fact, offer a very simple and effective structure.
>
> By way contrast, think of a situation where group of people (who don't know about OST, and/or, who are having a power struggle around "which process to use", and/or.... ) might easily spending a whole weekend arguing about "how to self-organize ourselves"... with a great deal more pain and frustration and a great deal less value.
>
> whereas, instead, IF someone knows about OST, and, a clear invitation has been extended, and, there is enough trust/suspension of disbelief so that participants are willing to enter into that format,
>
> then, we end up with a very simple and elegant structure that allows people to self-organize beautifully....
>
> at least that's how i see it! :-)
>
> with all best wishes,
>
> Rosa
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Rosa Zubizarreta
>
> Developing Participatory and Co-intelligent Leadership
> Author of <http://www.conflict2creativity.com> From Conflict to Creative Collaboration
>
> For more resources and learning opportunities, visit
> www.DiaPraxis.com
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 3, 2015 at 9:26 AM, Daniel Mezick via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS
> by Jo Freeman aka Joreen
>
> I find this essay extremely interesting. I hope you do, too.
>
>
>
> Here is a pertinent quote, from the essay:
> "...the idea of "structurelessness" does not prevent the formation of informal structures, only formal ones."
>
>
> Circa 1970. Context: the women's movement. Quick summary of the main points: from the essay...
>
> * During the years in which the women's liberation movement has been taking shape, a great emphasis has been placed on what are called leaderless, structureless groups as the main -- if not sole -- organizational form of the movement.
>
> * The idea of "structurelessness," however, has moved from a healthy counter to those tendencies, to becoming a goddess in its own right.
>
> * Contrary to what we would like to believe, there is no such thing as a structureless group.
>
> * This means that to strive for a structureless group is as useful, and as deceptive, as to aim at an "objective" news story, "value-free" social science, or a "free" economy. A "laissez faire" group is about as realistic as a "laissez faire" society; the idea becomes a smokescreen for the strong or the lucky to establish unquestioned hegemony over others.
>
> * This hegemony can be so easily established because the idea of "structurelessness" does not prevent the formation of informal structures, only formal ones.
>
> * For everyone to have the opportunity to be involved in a given group and to participate in its activities, the structure must be explicit, not implicit.
>
> * It is this informal structure, particularly in Unstructured groups, which forms the basis for elites.
>
>
>
> Just in case you have not yet encountered the full text of this essay, here it is:
>
> THE TYRANNY of STRUCTURELESSNESS
> by Jo Freeman aka Joreen
> http://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
> http://www.OpenSpaceAgility.com/about
> http://www.DanielMezick.com
> 203 915 7248 <tel:203%20915%207248>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151003/1ecbeb22/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of OSList Digest, Vol 54, Issue 3
> *************************************
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 116606 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20151003/f66de830/attachment.bin>
More information about the OSList
mailing list