[OSList] OSList Digest, Vol 98, Issue 33

Mark Carmel markacarmel at gmail.com
Sun Jun 30 18:00:29 PDT 2019


When I set the world record in 1993 with 750 I went off the BIBLE our good
buddy Harrison Owen wrote.

I remember the night before like it was yesterday.  I called Harrison Owen
on the phone for his final words of encouragement (since this had never
been done before).

In his cool, calm, way, he imparted his simple, clear and confident Wisdom
on my prepararations when he said:

...Just know The nerves and anxiety you feel are your SPIRIT and ENERGY,
just waiting to happen. That is when
you will know the Angel's are
on your shoulders... - H.H.Owen

For a group of 500 people I recommend 15 break out meeting areas available
at the same time for each time slot.

All the best,
Mark Carmel

On Fri, Jun 28, 2019, 2:32 PM <oslist-request at lists.openspacetech.org>
wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: OST meeting for ca. 500 people (Wojciech Zawisz)
>    2. Re: OSList Digest, Vol 98, Issue 31 (Wojciech Zawisz)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:15:22 +0200
> From: Wojciech Zawisz <wojciech.zawisz at gmail.com>
> To: gerardo de luzenberger <xge at loci.it>
> Cc: World wide Open Space Technology email list
>         <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] OST meeting for ca. 500 people
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CALE9k1nsNg5EgW7ZfebH4dWpXcsAxmz32s_tVk9J8incVsBn5g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Grazie for your support Gerardo!
>
>
> ?r., 26 cze 2019 o 17:30 gerardo de luzenberger <xge at loci.it> napisa?(a):
>
> > Ciao Wojciech,
> >
> > I did a coouple of 500 participants OS last year.
> > A lot of learnings about space, breakouts, reporting, ....., if you like
> > we can have a skype call
> > in the next days on that
> > ciao
> > ge
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Office: Via A. Volta 6 - 20121 Milano ? Italy
> > Phone: +39 3293281343 -Fax: +39 02 87151318 - Skype: gerardodeluz
> > *xge at loci.it <xge at loci.it>* - *www.loci.it <http://www.loci.it> *
> >
> >
> > <http://www.scuolafacilitazione.it>
> >
> > *Please consider the environment before deciding to print this e-mail*
> > This e-mail (and any attachment(s)) is strictly confidential and for use
> > only by intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient(s),
> > please notify it via e-mail atinfo at loci.it
> > <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/1/blocked::mailto:info@loci.it> promptly
> >
> >
> >
> > Il giorno mer 26 giu 2019 alle ore 15:32 Wojciech Zawisz via OSList <
> > oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> ha scritto:
> >
> >> Hi.
> >> I would like to ask about your experience regarding the venue
> >> requirements for OST event for ca. 500 people.
> >> How much space (m2) is minimum?
> >> What else are important areas organisers should take under
> consideration,
> >> so event would be safe and valuable for all participants?
> >> I would appreciate your thoughts.
> >> Thank you,
> >>
> >> Wojtek
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OSList mailing list
> >> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> >> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> >> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> >> Past archives can be viewed here:
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
> >
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:45:17 +0200
> From: Wojciech Zawisz <wojciech.zawisz at gmail.com>
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
>         <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] OSList Digest, Vol 98, Issue 31
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CALE9k1nWOnHpdvzC17OasPMyR9HVq4W42bQmVWM-+O0-6wUc+g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Thank you Harrison.
>
> I see these two circus tents in my imagination. And I smile :-)
>
> Michael - could you share some photos from that event with us?
> And will you find some time for a Skype or a phone call next days?
> I would love to hear your stories and listen about your experience,
> thoughts and hints.
>
> Have a great weekend all of you, Open Space Tribe :-)
>
>
> ?r., 26 cze 2019 o 22:32 <oslist-request at lists.openspacetech.org>
> napisa?(a):
>
> > Send OSList mailing list submissions to
> >         oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >
> > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >         oslist-owner at lists.openspacetech.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Re: Orgs that Failed to Implement Self-Organization?
> >       (Michael M Pannwitz)
> >    2. OST meeting for ca. 500 people (Wojciech Zawisz)
> >    3. Re: OST meeting for ca. 500 people (gerardo de luzenberger)
> >    4. Re: OST meeting for ca. 500 people (Harrison Owen)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:48:15 +0200
> > From: Michael M Pannwitz <mmpannwitz at gmail.com>
> > To: David Osborne <dosborne at change-fusion.com>, OSLIST
> >         <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> > Subject: Re: [OSList] Orgs that Failed to Implement Self-Organization?
> > Message-ID: <c82599ca-cb7e-61a4-13b9-eab5a241da48 at gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >
> > Dear David,
> >
> > you are touching basic issues, which I enjoy.
> > Getting to basic issues fuels a wider dialog.
> >
> > Yes, self-organizing has been around since the Big Bang, in everything.
> >
> > And it shows up regurlary and predictably in OST gatherings. Regardless
> > of the conditions that are characteristic of any such gathering. And it
> > shows up more or less impressively or noticeably in all kinds of
> > situations that are in no way OST events: Tahir Place, Playground, New
> > York City, Fridays for Future, neighborhood events... and on and on.
> >
> > If there is a gathering and it is announced that it will have the form
> > of an OST event and that promise is not met, selforganizing will happen
> > nonetheless and sometimes with high action that can cause the event to
> > close. And while it is certain that there will be change (everything
> > changes all the time) there is no predicting what kind of change will
> > happen or that a particular change will emerge.
> >
> > If you go at this with the assumption that the influence of the "force
> > of selforganization" can be "seen" in the manifestation of what we
> > perceive as "selforganizing" in groups, organizations and systems...
> > such as a group of small children selforganizing their activities
> > without any apparent leadership (parents) or hired facilitators (us)
> > having productive fun... it might be worth taking a closer look at that
> > "force".
> > Taking a closer look aint easy because little is really known (in the
> > Scientific meaning of "know") about the "force of selforganization". I
> > suspect that has to do with the universal nature of the force. A
> > characteristic that is not satisfyingly "researchable" with our limited
> > abilities and skills.
> >
> > One way of looking at it which I find useful for the unfolding of
> > selforganization is paying attention to some of the prerequisites that
> > expand time and space for the "force" to thrive in. Mind you, its there,
> > it will unfold. However, it can be hampered... especially observeable in
> > groups, organizations and systems that we ourselves have thought up and
> > supplied with all sorts of "control" mechanisms.
> >
> > Harrison has described how he saw the prerequisites that some deep
> > thinkers discovered to be prerequisites for the emergence of "life"
> > considerable time after the Big Bang also apply for an OST event. His
> > quest into this realm was definitely influenced by the "force of
> > selforganisation" which, however, had no idea what this would lead to
> > (in the sense that we have "ideas").
> > Ok, he described the "adapted" prerequisites that, when in place, would
> > have a positive influence on the chances for the  "force" to get more
> > time and space for its play.
> >
> > In my practice of OST as facilitator, getting the clients ("hosts") to
> > check on the prerequisites led to either accepting the contract for an
> > OST event or to suggest that they needed something else or to offer ways
> > to them to have more of the prerquisites in place. This often resulted
> > in changing from "mandated participation" to "voluntary participation"
> > with the additional work of producing a real invitation, or expanded
> > "diversity of participants" (not only inviting teachers of the school
> > but everybody that has to do with the school or is effected by the
> > school such as neighbors or financed the school, parents, or works in
> > the school or offers experience in his business to students in the
> > school....).
> >
> > Other prerequisites that are often mentioned such as high level of
> > conflict, complex issue, open question no single person or group has an
> > answer to, decision time of yesterday... also need to be checked on by
> > the client/sponsor.
> >
> > As you have noticed, one of the challenges for a facilitator (struggling
> > with being totally present and entirely invisible) is meeting ones own
> > care and passion while working as a facilitator.
> > Care and passion, especially when joined by responsibility, powerfully
> > move wicked issues into action. Without these elements, little will
> > happen in the circle, market place, in the breakout sessions and the
> > ensuing action planning. But what actually happens among the
> > selforganizing participants is not the playground of facilitators. That
> > is best illustrated by the facilitator also disappearing bodily just
> > after the marketplace phase... taking a nap. This is a tough number for
> > many of us. But it is the acid test. Often not tolerated by sponsors (is
> > this what we are paying you for?) and participants (where is your
> > responsibility? Dont you see that this is a whole mess?).
> >
> >  From this perspective, care, passion and responsibility seen that way
> > get into the way of the work of the facilitator... and the more freely
> > unfolding "Force of Selforganization".
> >
> > This I vaguely realized for the first time during an OT-Conference in
> > Higlands, North Carolina (conducted as an OS) when an Indin Shaman,
> > invited by HO, offered a session for us one evening to meet our
> > ancestors. He sat in the center drumming, all of us sitting on the floor
> > around him. After a while he said: "I love you all but I dont care for
> > you." He was very present and did abolutely nothing. After another long
> > stretch of time in which most of us had fallen asleep and gone into
> > wherever we all returned from shared our experiences from that unusual
> > realm.
> >
> > My take on caring (in the role of facilitator once the OST event has
> > been opened by the sponsor) is that the less you care the more time and
> > space will be available for the "force of selforganisation" to unfold.
> > I have many stories on this. One entered into a seemingly minor aspect
> > of the way I did a bit of "on the job training" for new members of the
> > os-team. At the point at which participants are invited to go to the
> > center and write their issue and name on a sheet of paper... two of the
> > the new team members were asked to stand at each end of the Bulletin
> > Board. Their task was to do nothing and just stand there. Even if
> > participants had not signed their issue, or the paper fell to the floor,
> > or was posted without a time/space post-it, or engaged in a chat with
> > other participants in front of the Bulletin Board while others were
> > still announcing their issues... all the new team members stuck to their
> > task. In debriefing, they reported on the initial torture (not being
> > allowed to follow their instinctiv care-urge) they experienced... and
> > also that they saw, as everyone else did, that after a short time the
> > participants themselves clicked into the selforganizing modus and
> > intervened among themselves. This modus predictably expands tremendously
> > during the further course, especially when it is the 16 hours, sleeping
> > twice, kind of 3 day event.
> >
> > I seriously doubt that it is possible to "influence the self-organizing
> > process"... or even do things that lead to "positive change" (what about
> > "negative change"?). Or, what is "positive" or "negative" change?
> > (I once experienced a facilitator in an OST event who commented on every
> > issue posted, suggested which issues were related and should be
> > clustered, which did not fit into the overall theme... I am sure he
> > cared and was passionate but was actually engaging himself in a realm
> > that was none of his business and actually had becomed a space-invador.
> > What would have happened if a participant became space invador, which is
> > not so rare? Would he notice, get into a fight, ...?).
> >
> > Come in the "prerequisites" that need to be checked and be in place for
> > the Force of Selforganization to fully play out in an OST event.
> > I rather call them prerequisites and not factors because they play a
> > role in the first contact and the ensuing contact meeting with the
> > sponsor... long before the event itself. And they are an important
> > orientation for the sponsor to decide whether OST (with the attached
> > prerequisites) is what is needed.
> > Sticking with the client/sponsor in checking the prerequisites relieves
> > me from "selling" OST (which many of us feel to be impossible anyhow but
> > keep trying)... the decision is all with the sponsor with the
> > "prerequisites" as a "tool" and my peace of mind knowing that with the
> > prerequisites in place the event will be ok, as always.
> >
> > I wonder about the experiences we have had among us consciously working
> > with this tool in the very early stages of the overall process leading
> > to an OST event.
> >
> > Greetings from Berlin
> > mmp
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Am 21.06.2019 um 15:32 schrieb David Osborne:
> > >> Michael,
> > >>
> > >> Your email triggered a few thoughts for me.
> > >>
> > >> My thoughts on self-organization are heavily influenced by lunches at
> > >> the Glen Echo Inn with Harrison.? From these lunches, I learned
> > >> several things that I have been practicing and working with for over a
> > >> decade now related to self-organization. The first of which is the
> > >> premise that you and others have shared here that self-organization is
> > >> happening all the time...it's all self-organizing. We don't have to
> > >> make it happen. What happens in Open Space though are that certain
> > >> conditions are set that enable change to emerge ......rather than
> > >> intractable, complex issues with diverse views staying stuck.
> > >>
> > >> One different view I've had with Harrison is that we don't have to do
> > >> anything at all ....we can just let it all happen. While this is true.
> > >> I've had a human problem, I care. Passion and caring is part of the
> > >> root energy that fuels both open space and self-organization. My
> > >> caring has led me to want to figure out how can we influence the
> > >> self-organizing process to lead to positive change the help whatever
> > >> the broader organism is, group, organization, country, society, etc.
> > >>
> > >> You raise the point about focusing on the"factors" that affect
> > >> self-organization. That is where I've invested my time and energy over
> > >> the past decade and what I've discovered is that while we cannot
> > >> control change or the self-organizing process we can influence the
> > >> speed and direction of change quite dramatically if we focus on and
> > >> adjust these factors.? It's very powerful and I believe the future of
> > >> change.
> > >>
> > >> best to all,
> > >>
> > >> David
> > >>
> > >> *David R. Osborne*
> > >> Organization and Leadership Development
> >
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 3:53 AM Michael M Pannwitz
> > >> <mmpannwitz at gmail.com <mailto:mmpannwitz at gmail.com>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> ??? Dear Jake and you others,
> > >>
> > >> ??? I am intriguing myself with your quest for pitfalls in regard to
> > >> ??? "implement self-organization".
> > >> ??? If it is assumed that "self-organization" is inherent in all
> groups,
> > >> ??? organisations, systems and in all processes on this planet and in
> > the
> > >> ??? universe and has been since the Big Bang, it would not be
> > >> necessary to
> > >> ??? "implement self-organization".
> > >> ??? In fact, attempting to "implement self-organization" could in
> > >> itself be
> > >> ??? the pitfall. This would jive with the notion that a sure fire way
> to
> > >> ??? impede self-organization is to mess with it (that is, control it).
> > >>
> > >> ??? Picking up on what Rob just wrote
> > >> ??? "By definition self organisation occurs despite any efforts to
> > >> make it
> > >> ??? happen."
> > >> ??? I suspect that
> > >> ??? "Self-organisation is hampered by efforts to make it happen."
> > >>
> > >> ??? I also wonder if it would be helpful to distinguish between
> > >> ??? "self-organization" as we observe it everywhere around us (such as
> > >> ??? children self-organizing their game on a playground or a butterfly
> > >> ??? unfolding from a chrysalis or a break-out group in an os-event
> > >> ??? self-organizing their activities) and the "force of
> > >> selforganization".
> > >>
> > >> ??? Assuming? that the force of selforganzation is behind
> > >> self-organization
> > >> ??? it might be useful to focus on the "factors" that would support an
> > >> ??? environment in which the force of selforganization can thrive,
> > >> unfold...
> > >>
> > >> ??? One of the stories we have is the development of OST itself. OST
> was
> > >> ??? dreamt up originally as a way to organize a conference in a few
> > hours
> > >> ??? instead of a whole years work (a wonderful gift that was borne out
> > of
> > >> ??? being bored with working hard). After it kept working in various
> > >> ??? settings with a vast minimum of pre-implemented structure, no
> > >> ??? panels, no
> > >> ??? speakers, only one facilitator... his originator began wondering
> > >> on why
> > >> ??? it was working.
> > >>
> > >> ??? We know the rest of the story and have payed attention to the 5 or
> > >> 6 or
> > >> ??? 7 prerequisites that now have been tested in thousands of events
> > >> which
> > >> ??? need to be in place for the "force of selforganisation" to do its
> > >> thing
> > >> ??? which we then perceive as "self-organization".
> > >>
> > >> ??? Its simple but not easy.
> > >> ??? Is not facing that which seduces to twists, adulterations,
> creating
> > >> ??? surrogate cocktails...?
> > >>
> > >> ??? Greetings from Berlin
> > >> ??? mmp
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ??? Am 21.06.2019 um 04:04 schrieb Juliane Martina Roell (Structure &
> > >> ??? Process) via OSList:
> > >> ???? >
> > >> ???? >
> > >> ???? > Jake Yeager via OSList schrieb am 20.06.19 um 19:31:
> > >> ???? >> Hey everyone,
> > >> ???? >>
> > >> ???? >> Does anyone know of organizations that attempted to implement
> > >> ???? >> self-organization but failed? If so, do you know some of the
> > >> ??? factors
> > >> ???? >> that contributed to the failure? We hear about the successes,
> > >> like
> > >> ???? >> Semco and AES, but rarely about the failures. I'd like to
> > >> ??? understand
> > >> ???? >> better what the pitfalls are and also what the success rate
> is.
> > >> ???? > Hi Jake,
> > >> ???? >
> > >> ???? > what do you mean by "implement self-organization"?
> > >> ???? > How would one go about doing that?
> > >> ???? >
> > >> ???? > Best Regards,
> > >> ???? >
> > >> ???? > Juliane.
> > >>
> > >> ??? -- ??? Michael M Pannwitz
> > >> ??? Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany
> > >> ??? ++49 - 30-772 8000
> > >> ??? mmpannwitz at gmail.com <mailto:mmpannwitz at gmail.com>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 15:13:49 +0200
> > From: Wojciech Zawisz <wojciech.zawisz at gmail.com>
> > To: oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
> > Subject: [OSList] OST meeting for ca. 500 people
> > Message-ID:
> >         <
> > CALE9k1mQce7LpDHTFu4rxoN2-ByT7Jeb7UXOud+_i3DjDy31Dg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Hi.
> > I would like to ask about your experience regarding the venue
> requirements
> > for OST event for ca. 500 people.
> > How much space (m2) is minimum?
> > What else are important areas organisers should take under consideration,
> > so event would be safe and valuable for all participants?
> > I would appreciate your thoughts.
> > Thank you,
> >
> > Wojtek
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> >
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20190626/4cc4a16a/attachment-0001.html
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 17:29:35 +0200
> > From: gerardo de luzenberger <xge at loci.it>
> > To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> >         <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> > Cc: Wojciech Zawisz <wojciech.zawisz at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [OSList] OST meeting for ca. 500 people
> > Message-ID:
> >         <
> > CANk02oPt6QKU6kDWoBEX8biLn+Tj9sZp1boZJX4KyEk022jD9g at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Ciao Wojciech,
> >
> > I did a coouple of 500 participants OS last year.
> > A lot of learnings about space, breakouts, reporting, ....., if you like
> we
> > can have a skype call
> > in the next days on that
> > ciao
> > ge
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Office: Via A. Volta 6 - 20121 Milano ? Italy
> > Phone: +39 3293281343 -Fax: +39 02 87151318 - Skype: gerardodeluz
> > *xge at loci.it <xge at loci.it>* - *www.loci.it <http://www.loci.it> *
> >
> >
> > <http://www.scuolafacilitazione.it>
> >
> > *Please consider the environment before deciding to print this e-mail*
> > This e-mail (and any attachment(s)) is strictly confidential and for use
> > only by intended recipient(s). If you are not an intended recipient(s),
> > please notify it via e-mail atinfo at loci.it
> > <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/1/blocked::mailto:info@loci.it> promptly
> >
> >
> >
> > Il giorno mer 26 giu 2019 alle ore 15:32 Wojciech Zawisz via OSList <
> > oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> ha scritto:
> >
> > > Hi.
> > > I would like to ask about your experience regarding the venue
> > requirements
> > > for OST event for ca. 500 people.
> > > How much space (m2) is minimum?
> > > What else are important areas organisers should take under
> consideration,
> > > so event would be safe and valuable for all participants?
> > > I would appreciate your thoughts.
> > > Thank you,
> > >
> > > Wojtek
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OSList mailing list
> > > To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
> > > To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
> > > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> > > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
> > > Past archives can be viewed here:
> > > http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> >
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20190626/1ecd603f/attachment-0001.html
> > >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 13:24:35 -0400
> > From: "Harrison Owen" <hhowensr at gmail.com>
> > To: "'World wide Open Space Technology email list'"
> >         <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> > Subject: Re: [OSList] OST meeting for ca. 500 people
> > Message-ID: <000001d52c44$07125d60$15371820$@com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Soo? A biggie! How about 2108? Logistical expert is Michael Pannwitz & Co
> > in Berlin. All German Psychiatrists in two Circus Tents. Wonderful!
> >
> >
> >
> > ho
> >
> >
> >
> > From: OSList [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf
> Of
> > Wojciech Zawisz via OSList
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 9:14 AM
> > To: oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
> > Cc: Wojciech Zawisz
> > Subject: [OSList] OST meeting for ca. 500 people
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi.
> >
> > I would like to ask about your experience regarding the venue
> requirements
> > for OST event for ca. 500 people.
> > How much space (m2) is minimum?
> >
> > What else are important areas organisers should take under consideration,
> > so event would be safe and valuable for all participants?
> >
> > I would appreciate your thoughts.
> >
> > Thank you,
> >
> >
> >
> > Wojtek
> >
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