Survival of the Cooperative

Thu Feb 10 15:27:57 PST 2005

Funda - you certainly stirred up the pot! I just love to see a profusion of
confusion here on the LIST. If nothing else, it makes it very clear, there
are just human beings here. Nothing more, nothing less. And confusion is
that wonderful state that muddles made up minds so that a little space is
opened for a new idea or two.  And who knows, we may go a lot deeper?? The
points you made are all cogent. I don't know that I have any answers, but I
do have some thoughts and observations -

"I agree that a sudden need or crises can cause quick self organization and
a shift in collective consciousness (i.e. wars, natural disasters). However
self organization for a quick reaction doesn't mean that a healthy community
(democracy, peace, long term cooperation, civilization) has been built".

I think it would be a mistake to understand self-organization only in terms
of a "quick reaction." A quick reaction is certainly something that a SOS
(Self Organizing System) can do, it may also be the most visible, but that
is only a very small part of the story as I would understand it.  From where
I sit it is ALL self-organizing, and that would include movements toward
long term cooperation. And a healthy community is one that is constantly
adapting to a changing world seeking the most cooperative relationships
possible - if only because they take a lot less energy and are much more
productive. There are also sick communities, and they will die. They may
seek to save themselves by building walls, but in fact they are curtailing
their possibility space, and will eventually starve to death. Rather like
ants that refuse to leave the Hill, they may think they have preserved an
ideal society, but it is going to get awful hungry.

"I studied business and not psychology or sociology but from life
experiences I know that "fear" prevents a open space, a long term democracy
(at least freedom of expression for everybody) can not be created by force."

Force is a very funny thing. I guess another name for it would be Power -
and we had a conversation about that just recently. For me the real issue is
not whether force is good or bad (I rather think it is neutral) - but what
do you do with it? I would certainly agree with you that you cannot force
somebody (group) to be free, to freely express them selves, to be
democratic. If nothing else this is a total contradiction in terms. On the
other hand force clearly can be used (and has been used) to open up some
space so that people can express themselves freely. An example from my side
of the puddle would be the American Revolution. King George was not exactly
a democratic figure, and he certainly found the free expression of those in
his colonies to be annoying, particularly when that expression ran in the
face of the Royal Policy. In short the Boston Tea Party was not his favorite
event, and he sent a whole mess of soldiers to shut it down. Us colonials
had a different idea, and the Tea Party turned into a shooting war - which
George lost. One could argue, as I would, that the use of force in 1775 in
fact created the conditions for a long term Democracy which we in the USA
have been enjoying for more than 200 years. 200 years, of course, is not for
ever, but it is not bad for a start. 

So what do you say about Iraq? Personally I can't think of a single thing
that the American Administration has gotten right on this one. The
justification, planning, and in many ways, execution of this war has been
abysmal. This is not to say that many of our troops in the field have not
performed admirably (some haven't) - but I think it is far from clear why
they (the Troops) should have been given the opportunity to perform at all.
Having said all of that, the fact is we did our "Shock and Awe," toppled a
statue and a nasty person, Saddam. Now What? Everybody in the whole world
could go on for ever trying to assign blame (and there is a lot of blame to
be assigned) OR?  Or what ?? 

At this point human error (George's) and a Tsunami are equivalent. Both open
space, create a lot of destruction, to say nothing of collateral damage -
but equally provide the opportunity for something new. And what will the
"new" look like? That for me is the critical question, and I leave the
blame-game to anybody who cares to play it. The Iraqi people have a major
opportunity, and what are they going to do with it??? I don't know. For
sure, they will not opt for American Style Democracy - which works pretty
much only in America. Being American. I like it, but nobody else has to.
There is nobody in the whole world who can tell the Iraqis what to do (a lot
will try) - but this much is clear to me. These folks have an opportunity to
create a future for themselves. Sitting here in the US - I say Go For it!
Don't listen to George. Don't listen to anybody! (Except yourselves!) Take
your future in your hands - it is the only one you have got. 

So I don't know that this advances anything - but it is kind of where I am
at. 

Harrison

PS "Survival should be the easiest achievement when a group of human being
comes together. So the big question for me is why we are still at that level
after 14M years? why we can not discuss how we can develop altogether in
peace, joy and richness? why we don't discuss how we can establish a better
cooperation, better ways of exchange among different cultures, religions,
regions, countries etc ?" 

Funda - I think this is what we have been talking about every since. We make
a little progress. We lose something. But the conversation goes on.

Harrison Owen

7808 River Falls Drive

Potomac, Maryland   20845

Phone 301-365-2093

Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com/>

Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org

Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
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-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Funda Oral
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 8:57 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Survival of the Cooperative

from the essay :

"The researchers at the Santa Fe Institute have denominated self-organizing
systems Complex Adaptive Systems. The key word is adaptive, which indicates
that the system, be that molecular or human, is constantly adapting to its
internal and external environment seeking a better fit, a better way of
getting along in the world. This might also be called learning, for the
system is not only finding better ways to be, it is also remembering them
for future use. In short a body of knowledge is being built which will
enable higher levels of survival."

"Collective consciousness in this case is not to be confused with deep
shared consciousness manifest in the Jungian archetypes, but rather a
functional intelligence that appeared capable of observing a situation,
consider the options, and then take concerted action - all without a word
spoken and in an incredibly short period of time (minutes). How this works,
I don't have a clue, but in the situations where the collective
consciousness became manifest I found myself reminded of the behavioral
shift of the ant colony when they moved from random search to well ordered
columns, bringing home the tart, all of which seemed to happen with the snap
of a finger. I suppose if ants can do it, humans might be capable as well."

some reflections onwars, cooperation, open space etc ;

I agree that a sudden need or crises cancause quick self organisation and a
shift in collective consciousness (i.e wars, natural disasters).

However self organisation for aquick reaction doesn't mean that a healthy
community ( democracy, peace, long term cooperation, civilization)

has been built.

I studied business and not psychology or sociology but from life
experiencesi know that "fear" prevents a open space, a long term democracy

(at least freedom of expression for everybody) can not be createdby force.

Wars are different then naturaldisasters as they are made by human.

Survivalshould be the easiest achievement when a group of human being comes
together. So the big question for me is why we are still at that level 

after 14M years? why we can not discuss how we can develop alltogether in
peace,joy and richness? why we don't discuss how we can 

establish a better cooperation, better ways of exchangeamong different
cultures, religions, regions, countries etc ? 

Funda

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Jack <mailto:jack at designinglife.com>  Ricchiuto 

To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE..EDU <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>

Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 4:20 AM

Subject: Re: Survival of the Cooperative

Reflecting the way ecologists today are starting to redefine "fitness",
author Robert Ulanowicz defines fitness as "the ability of a species to play
a role in the web of ecological processes."

Jack

~~~~~~~~~~

jack ricchiuto

two.one.six/three.seven.three/seven.four.seven.five

www.designinglife.com / www.appreciativeleadership..org
<http://www.appreciativeleadership.org>  

------------Original Message------------

From: Steve Gawron <gawron at megsinet.net>

To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU

Date: Wed, Feb-9-2005 6:02 PM

Subject: Re: Survival of the Cooperative

Hello Don and all,

There is an interesting book by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi which supports that

concept of survival of ideas in a Darwinian context.  The book is called

"Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience", ISBN 0-06-016253-8

In brief, a "flow" experience is akin to reading a book you cannot put down.

I hope you enjoy the read.

Steve Gawron

----- Original Message -----

From: "Don Ferretti" <dferrett at placer.ca.gov>

To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>

Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 4:34 PM

Subject: Survival of the Cooperative

> I can give you a lot of detail to back this up but I will not take up

> air time here to do that. I just wanted to say that I know for a fact

> that the "survival of the fittest" mantra was not even spoken by Darwin.

> But, his whole body of work seems to have been boiled down to that idea.

> I have my theory as to why that is. But, if you really look at all of

> that work, the role of cooperation, adaptation and flexibility  plays a

> much more important role. We did not make it this far through

> competition, but through pervasive cooperation.

>

> http://placer.networkofcare.org

> www.placer.ca.gov/cfc

> First 5 - Placer CFC

> Don Ferretti - Director

> 530.886.1824

> 530.886.1810 (fax)

>

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