Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf?

Winston Kinch kinch at sympatico.ca
Wed Sep 26 17:26:47 PDT 2001


If you look hard enough, you will find some of those someones here.  But, I can almost guarantee, not a majority.  Perhaps you are interpreting the voice of "wolf" in a different way than others of us?
Winston
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Peggy Holman 
  To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 7:13 PM
  Subject: Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf?


  The voice of wolf was missing in the council circle.  Without that voice, a
  decision was made that led to great difficulty.  Had wolf's voice been heard
  from the start, a different result would have occurred.  My sense is there
  are a number of voices that we haven't heard from on this list.  One that
  stands out for me is the voice that seemse to be reflected in poll numbers
  in an overwhelming way.  I'm wondering if someone among us can help us hear
  that perspective.

  Your point about the specific question is well taken.  Here's what I pulled
  from Gallup's page:

  GALLUP NEWS SERVICE
  http://www.gallup.com/Poll/Releases/Pr010914b.asp

  Key Summary Points

  * The vast majority of Americans support the general idea of military action
  against the groups or nations responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks.
  * Support for retaliatory military action has remained at about the 90%
  level through the weekend of Sept. 21-22.
  *  Given a choice, Americans are somewhat more in favor of a long-term war
  to defeat global terrorism networks than focusing on the specific terrorist
  groups responsible for the attacks.
  *  More than eight out of 10 Americans favor direct military action in
  Afghanistan, and more than seven out of 10 favor direct military action in
  Iraq.

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Michael Herman" <mherman at globalchicago.net>
  To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
  Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 12:03 PM
  Subject: Re: Turtle (way of warrior) - who speaks for wolf?


  > i think we have to be careful what we assign that percentage to, peggy.  i
  have
  > not heard "70-90% favor *going to war*"...what i have heard is "70-90%
  favor
  > *retaliation against those who have done these terrible acts*" or
  something to
  > that effect.  very different things.  in such a complex situation, it
  seems
  > critically important to understand what question is *really* being asked,
  > heard, responded to in these polls.
  >
  > also, not sure i understand your question.  i took 'wolf' in the earlier
  > message to be the folks whose space we've moved into in other parts of the
  > world.  here you seem to shift the reference to those who would choose
  war.
  > getting murky for me.  m
  >
  >
  >
  > Peggy Holman wrote:
  >
  > > I keep seeing polls that say something like 70-90% of Americans believe
  > > going to war is the right answer.  I haven't heard that voice expressed
  > > here.  Can someone speak that perspective from their heart?  And can the
  > > rest of us be courageous enough to hold the space open for it?  Who
  speaks
  > > for wolf?
  > >
  > > Peggy
  > >
  > > P.S.  John --  many, many thanks for the powerful posts you have
  provided
  > > during this time.
  > >
  > > ----- Original Message -----
  > > From: "John Dicus" <jdicus at OURFUTURE.COM>
  > > To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
  > > Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 6:17 AM
  > > Subject: Turtle (way of warrior)
  > >
  > > > Dear all,
  > > >
  > > > I learned from a friend, Paula Underwood, whose Native American name
  was
  > > > "Turtle Woman," that wisdom lives in the center of the circle.  Turtle
  > > > grows in the center while the ways of the four directions cycle about
  > > > (warrior, visionary, healer, teacher).  She said to walk the circle
  > > > clockwise, hearing from the four voices in the unending sequence of a
  > > > learning spiral.  If we become stuck at any one point, she said, we
  should
  > > > back up a quarter turn before moving on.  So, what does teacher need
  to
  > > say
  > > > before we can go forward from warrior... to vision to healing to....?
  In
  > > > this spiraling, the way of the turtle (wisdom) grows it's voice as
  well.
  > > >
  > > > If any of you have never seen Paula's works, her teaching book "Who
  Speaks
  > > > For Wolf" would be a good read right now.  In short, it's about a
  people
  > > > who decided to move their village to a more fertile area but forgot to
  > > hear
  > > > the voice of wolf in their council circle.  When they moved, they
  moved
  > > > smack dab into wolf's territory.  After being harassed by wolves for a
  few
  > > > months, they decided that either they had to kill all the wolves or
  move
  > > > back. They decided to move back since the other choice was
  unconscionable.
  > > > So -- who speaks for wolf?
  > > >
  > > > John Dicus
  > > >
  > > > --
  > > > John Dicus  |  CornerStone Consulting Associates
  > > > - Leadership - Systems Thinking - Teamwork - Open Space - Electric
  Maze -
  > > > 2761 Stiegler Road, Valley City, OH 44280
  > > > 800-773-8017  |  330-725-2728 (2729 fax)
  > > > mailto:jdicus at ourfuture.com  |  http://www.ourfuture.com
  > > >
  > > > *
  > > > *
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  >
  > --
  >
  > Michael Herman
  > 300 West North Avenue #1105
  > Chicago IL 60610
  > 312-280-7838 voice
  > 312-280-7837 fax
  >
  > http://www.michaelherman.com
  > a personal/professional portal to
  > consulting, open space, evolution,
  > invitation resources, michael's
  > open notebook, and the rest of
  > GlobalChicago...
  >
  > mailto:mherman at globalchicago.net
  >
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