<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 5.50.4522.1800" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>If you look hard enough, you will find some of
those someones here. But, I can almost guarantee, not a majority.
Perhaps you are interpreting the voice of "wolf" in a different way than others
of us?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Winston</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=peggy@OPENCIRCLECOMPANY.COM
href="mailto:peggy@OPENCIRCLECOMPANY.COM">Peggy Holman</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 26, 2001 7:13
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: Turtle (way of warrior) -
who speaks for wolf?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>The voice of wolf was missing in
the council circle. Without that voice, a<BR>decision was made that led
to great difficulty. Had wolf's voice been heard<BR>from the start, a
different result would have occurred. My sense is there<BR>are a number
of voices that we haven't heard from on this list. One that<BR>stands
out for me is the voice that seemse to be reflected in poll numbers<BR>in an
overwhelming way. I'm wondering if someone among us can help us
hear<BR>that perspective.<BR><BR>Your point about the specific question is
well taken. Here's what I pulled<BR>from Gallup's page:<BR><BR>GALLUP
NEWS SERVICE<BR><A
href="http://www.gallup.com/Poll/Releases/Pr010914b.asp">http://www.gallup.com/Poll/Releases/Pr010914b.asp</A><BR><BR>Key
Summary Points<BR><BR>* The vast majority of Americans support the general
idea of military action<BR>against the groups or nations responsible for the
Sept. 11 attacks.<BR>* Support for retaliatory military action has remained at
about the 90%<BR>level through the weekend of Sept. 21-22.<BR>* Given a
choice, Americans are somewhat more in favor of a long-term war<BR>to defeat
global terrorism networks than focusing on the specific terrorist<BR>groups
responsible for the attacks.<BR>* More than eight out of 10 Americans
favor direct military action in<BR>Afghanistan, and more than seven out of 10
favor direct military action in<BR>Iraq.<BR><BR>----- Original Message
-----<BR>From: "Michael Herman" <<A
href="mailto:mherman@globalchicago.net">mherman@globalchicago.net</A>><BR>To:
<<A
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>><BR>Sent:
Wednesday, September 26, 2001 12:03 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Turtle (way of warrior)
- who speaks for wolf?<BR><BR><BR>> i think we have to be careful what we
assign that percentage to, peggy. i<BR>have<BR>> not heard "70-90%
favor *going to war*"...what i have heard is "70-90%<BR>favor<BR>>
*retaliation against those who have done these terrible acts*" or<BR>something
to<BR>> that effect. very different things. in such a complex
situation, it<BR>seems<BR>> critically important to understand what
question is *really* being asked,<BR>> heard, responded to in these
polls.<BR>><BR>> also, not sure i understand your question. i took
'wolf' in the earlier<BR>> message to be the folks whose space we've moved
into in other parts of the<BR>> world. here you seem to shift the
reference to those who would choose<BR>war.<BR>> getting murky for
me. m<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> Peggy Holman
wrote:<BR>><BR>> > I keep seeing polls that say something like 70-90%
of Americans believe<BR>> > going to war is the right answer. I
haven't heard that voice expressed<BR>> > here. Can someone speak
that perspective from their heart? And can the<BR>> > rest of us
be courageous enough to hold the space open for it?
Who<BR>speaks<BR>> > for wolf?<BR>> ><BR>> > Peggy<BR>>
><BR>> > P.S. John -- many, many thanks for the powerful
posts you have<BR>provided<BR>> > during this time.<BR>> ><BR>>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>> > From: "John Dicus" <<A
href="mailto:jdicus@OURFUTURE.COM">jdicus@OURFUTURE.COM</A>><BR>> >
To: <<A
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>><BR>>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2001 6:17 AM<BR>> > Subject: Turtle
(way of warrior)<BR>> ><BR>> > > Dear all,<BR>> >
><BR>> > > I learned from a friend, Paula Underwood, whose Native
American name<BR>was<BR>> > > "Turtle Woman," that wisdom lives in
the center of the circle. Turtle<BR>> > > grows in the center
while the ways of the four directions cycle about<BR>> > > (warrior,
visionary, healer, teacher). She said to walk the circle<BR>> >
> clockwise, hearing from the four voices in the unending sequence of
a<BR>> > > learning spiral. If we become stuck at any one
point, she said, we<BR>should<BR>> > > back up a quarter turn before
moving on. So, what does teacher need<BR>to<BR>> > say<BR>>
> > before we can go forward from warrior... to vision to healing
to....?<BR>In<BR>> > > this spiraling, the way of the turtle (wisdom)
grows it's voice as<BR>well.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > If any of you
have never seen Paula's works, her teaching book "Who<BR>Speaks<BR>> >
> For Wolf" would be a good read right now. In short, it's about
a<BR>people<BR>> > > who decided to move their village to a more
fertile area but forgot to<BR>> > hear<BR>> > > the voice of
wolf in their council circle. When they moved, they<BR>moved<BR>>
> > smack dab into wolf's territory. After being harassed by
wolves for a<BR>few<BR>> > > months, they decided that either they
had to kill all the wolves or<BR>move<BR>> > > back. They decided to
move back since the other choice was<BR>unconscionable.<BR>> > > So
-- who speaks for wolf?<BR>> > ><BR>> > > John Dicus<BR>>
> ><BR>> > > --<BR>> > > John Dicus |
CornerStone Consulting Associates<BR>> > > - Leadership - Systems
Thinking - Teamwork - Open Space - Electric<BR>Maze -<BR>> > > 2761
Stiegler Road, Valley City, OH 44280<BR>> > > 800-773-8017
| 330-725-2728 (2729 fax)<BR>> > > <A
href="mailto:jdicus@ourfuture.com">mailto:jdicus@ourfuture.com</A>
| <A
href="http://www.ourfuture.com">http://www.ourfuture.com</A><BR>> >
><BR>> > > *<BR>> > > *<BR>> > >
==========================================================<BR>> > >
<A
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A><BR>>
> > ------------------------------<BR>> > > To subscribe,
unsubscribe, change your options,<BR>> > > view the archives of <A
href="mailto:oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu</A>,<BR>>
> > Visit:<BR>> > ><BR>> > > <A
href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</A><BR>>
> ><BR>> ><BR>> > *<BR>> > *<BR>> >
==========================================================<BR>> > <A
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A><BR>>
> ------------------------------<BR>> > To subscribe, unsubscribe,
change your options,<BR>> > view the archives of <A
href="mailto:oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu</A>,<BR>>
> Visit:<BR>> ><BR>> > <A
href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</A><BR>><BR>>
--<BR>><BR>> Michael Herman<BR>> 300 West North Avenue #1105<BR>>
Chicago IL 60610<BR>> 312-280-7838 voice<BR>> 312-280-7837
fax<BR>><BR>> <A
href="http://www.michaelherman.com">http://www.michaelherman.com</A><BR>> a
personal/professional portal to<BR>> consulting, open space,
evolution,<BR>> invitation resources, michael's<BR>> open notebook, and
the rest of<BR>> GlobalChicago...<BR>><BR>> <A
href="mailto:mherman@globalchicago.net">mailto:mherman@globalchicago.net</A><BR>><BR>>
*<BR>> *<BR>>
==========================================================<BR>> <A
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A><BR>>
------------------------------<BR>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your
options,<BR>> view the archives of <A
href="mailto:oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu</A>,<BR>>
Visit:<BR>><BR>> <A
href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</A><BR>><BR><BR>*<BR>*<BR>==========================================================<BR><A
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A><BR>------------------------------<BR>To
subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,<BR>view the archives of <A
href="mailto:oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu</A>,<BR>Visit:<BR><BR><A
href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</A></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>