[OSList] a substantial difference

gerardo de luzenberger via OSList oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
Wed Aug 17 02:30:10 PDT 2016


Hi Peggy.
​Thanks for sharing this article.
​
In my experience tables like the IAP2 one are called "ladders of
participation" and are referred to citizen participation.
If you google ladder of participation
<https://www.google.it/search?q=ladder+of+participation&num=30&safe=active&tbm=isch&imgil=1lrDg3QTd7YXfM%253A%253BkcKYsMubxkkFoM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Flithgow-schmidt.dk%25252Fsherry-arnstein%25252Fladder-of-citizen-participation.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=1lrDg3QTd7YXfM%253A%252CkcKYsMubxkkFoM%252C_&usg=__6juqIVMHCgWU3X80Ahn0Q46Euws%3D&biw=1280&bih=551&ved=0ahUKEwjog-X6j8jOAhUFBywKHeQhCRYQyjcIMg&ei=tyy0V6jMN4WOsAHkw6SwAQ#imgrc=4jdrehIgZpf8-M%3A>
you will find ​several different versions of them.
So my question at this point is: are participation and engagement the same
things?
ge



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2016-08-16 20:31 GMT+02:00 Peggy Holman via OSList <
oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>:

> The term engagement has entered into the world of journalism. About a year
> ago, someone asked me to define what I thought it meant to journalists. So
> I created a table with a continuum: https://medium.com/
> @PeggyHolman/what-do-journalists-mean-by-engagement-fc70d507d111#.
> ie194m594
>
> You’ll note something I stumbled across and reference in the table: a
> spectrum of engagement developed by IAP2 - the International Association
> for Public Participation. In short, they named five stops on their
> spectrum: inform, consult, involve, collaborate, empower. I think their
> hearts are in the right place, though I wouldn’t use the term empower
> because it implies that someone is actually in a position to give power
> away. I think it’s more about people remembering the power that they always
> have should they choose to claim it.
>
> In any case, I was struck that what I found independently tracked with
> what they had named. More on their spectrum is here
> <http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.iap2.org/resource/resmgr/imported/IAP2%20Spectrum_vertical.pdf>
> .
>
> Peggy
>
>
>
> _________________________________
> Peggy Holman
> Executive Director
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>
> Enjoy the award winning Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval into
> Opportunity <http://www.engagingemergence.com>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> On Aug 16, 2016, at 6:31 AM, Lourdes Adriana Diaz-Berrio Doring via OSList
> <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> Reading your messages I have this questions
>
> And what means exactly to engage?
>  For me it is not a Yes or no answer, there are different levels and ways
> to engage.
> Just being present learning and listening is one of them...
> Engagement with what exactly? It depends ...and is It normal, if you have
> never been to an OS to decide first to go just to see what does that look
> like?
> Or how it works?
> Just curiosity, at the beginning isn'it a first level of engagement?...
> .And what if the level of trust is not high enough yet in that group?
>
> Adriana
>
>
> 2016-08-16 8:09 GMT-05:00 Barry Owen via OSList <oslist at lists.
> openspacetech.org>:
>
>> Of course, why would they show up if they had no intention to engage?
>>
>> and then there are bumblebees and butterflies who, by appearance, seldom
>> seem to engage (with the group) at a deep level . . .
>>
>> yet they do have impact on the experience for everyone . . .
>>
>> So it's OK to show and engage - or not.
>>
>> I think . . .
>>
>> b
>>
>>
>> *Barry Owen*
>> *Real Estate Strategist*
>> Founder/Principal Broker
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>> *The Vital Few*
>> 4012 Hillsboro Pike #5
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>> Office: 615-502-2080
>> Connect: *615-568-2123*
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>> WhyJoinParetoRealty.com <http://whyjoinparetorealty.com/>
>> ParetoRealty.com <http://paretorealty.com/>
>> *BarryOwensBlog.com <http://barryowensblog.com/>*
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 7:59 AM, Dan Mezick via OSList <oslist at lists.
>> openspacetech.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Wait. Isnt the entire goal of inviting someone to go somewhere or do
>>> sometjing to engage them in the actvity? Perhaps a quick reference check on
>>> the definition of /invitation and /engagement might help?
>>>
>>> Do we really want people to show up and not engage or disengage?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 4:10 AM, gerardo de luzenberger via OSList <
>>> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I guess one important point is the meaning of engagement itself - my
>>> personal feeling is that the word engagement incorporates a sort of
>>> judgement. Engagement in what? How can you say people is not engaged? And
>>> what does it mean engagement? Normally the translation of what a leader
>>> calls "lack of engagement" for me is "they are not doing what I think they
>>> should do".
>>>
>>> I think that the concept of engagement belongs to the traditional form
>>> of leadership and it's far away from the kind of leadership that can show
>>> up in an open space. It's a different paradigm based as MMP said on self
>>> organisation and on the invitation that as HO said is an invitation only if
>>> can be can be refused.
>>> ge
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> 2016-08-15 21:36 GMT+02:00 Birgitt Williams via OSList <oslist at lists.
>>> openspacetech.org>:
>>>
>>>> Great points about authentic invitation to engage...and cultural
>>>> differences. To this part of the conversation, I add the concept of
>>>> 'informed consent'. If I am extended an authentic invitation, and I reflect
>>>> about whether my energy feels in harmony with it or not, I have a certain
>>>> amount and quality of information that I need so that I am making an
>>>> authentic consent to show up and fully engage. What is the information that
>>>> I need so I can go beyond simply accepting the invitation....to providing
>>>> informed consent? Even in cultures where there are reprisals for stepping
>>>> out as an individual, I may choose to participate based on informed consent
>>>> including of the risks to me.
>>>>
>>>> And to Michael's points about self organization...there is a
>>>> possibility of something that I don't call self organization. Within the
>>>> enabling conditions created for engagement, there are options for people to
>>>> feel inspired to access their personal leadership, alignment with the
>>>> collective vision, sense of being in community with each other and self
>>>> management. Spirit at work....if through our personal leadership we allow
>>>> it to be so.
>>>>
>>>> There is a connection between authentic invitation, informed consent,
>>>> personal leadership for engagement, and allowing Spirit to do the work of
>>>> Spirit.
>>>>
>>>> Warmly,
>>>> Birgitt
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 7:39 AM Bhavesh Patel via OSList <
>>>> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks all for this conversation.
>>>>>
>>>>> "*having the conditions for engagement*" is definitely about "*​an
>>>>> authentic invitation to engage*" and I think it is much more than
>>>>> that as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> For me it brings in the history and experience of the participants,
>>>>> and what sort of experiences they have had. It also brings in culture and
>>>>> what participants are used to. I live/work in a country where taking
>>>>> initiative was a no-no for 60 years. I have also worked in countries where
>>>>> stepping out as an individual is seen as very dangerous.
>>>>>
>>>>> So creating the conditions for engagement and personal leadership is a
>>>>> really deep question!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Smiles Bhav...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10 August 2016 at 22:50, Harold Shinsato via OSList <oslist at lists.
>>>>> openspacetech.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Birgitt, Harrison, Eva for this question!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Engagement is considered very valuable. There's been an annual gallup
>>>>>> poll around U.S. employee engagement levels, and the latest one shows it's
>>>>>> only 32%. They're participating as employees, but they're not really
>>>>>> showing up. http://www.gallup.com/poll/188144/employee-
>>>>>> engagement-stagnant-2015.aspx
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gallup has estimated the cost of this lack of engagement is "$450
>>>>>> billion to $550 billion in lost productivity per year".
>>>>>> http://www.gallup.com/businessjournal/162953/tackle-
>>>>>> employees-stagnating-engagement.aspx
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not the origin of this story, and I doubt it really started with
>>>>>> the formal use of Open Space in bringing Agile practices into software
>>>>>> organizations (thank you Daniel Mezick!), but engagement is really
>>>>>> considered critical in getting a successful and lasting shift towards agile
>>>>>> processes and an agile mindset.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Although Open Space doesn't guarantee engagement, it does prevent a
>>>>>> critical factor in this lack of engagement. Which is enforced
>>>>>> participation. Open Space helps show how space actually is open for people
>>>>>> to step forward for what they love as an act of service (thank you Peggy
>>>>>> Holman for showing me this way of thinking about Open Space).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unless we offer
>>>>>> ​​
>>>>>> an authentic invitation to engage, one that is welcoming as well as
>>>>>> being an invitation we can safely decline, the most we can get is their
>>>>>> butts into the room. We won't get their hearts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can we coerce engagement? Full engagement? My sense is no. Maybe we
>>>>>> can trick people, but engagement by fraud isn't real engagement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Harold
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/10/16 10:05 AM, Eva P Svensson via OSList wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Birgitt and al,
>>>>>> great distinction, I so often experience that there are great
>>>>>> engagement in an Open Space Technology meeting and also in the follow up
>>>>>> meeting afterwards but when it comes to action planning people suddenly
>>>>>> start to look down, the voices becomes more silent etc and it’s difficult
>>>>>> to get the energy for actions.
>>>>>> I will here after talk about both participation and engagement and
>>>>>> what that means for the participants and the sponsors.
>>>>>> :o)
>>>>>> Eva
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bästa hälsningar
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eva P Svensson
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *EPS Human Invest AB*
>>>>>> *Co owner Genuine Contact Group Inc*
>>>>>> *Medlem i Beyond Performance Group*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *"Verksamhetsutveckling genom människor skapar långsiktigt välmående
>>>>>> företag och organisationer"*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anåsbergsvägen 22, 439 34 ONSALA
>>>>>> Besöksadress; Norra Allégatan 8, Göteborg
>>>>>> Tfn: 0300-615 05, Mobil; 0706- 89 85 50
>>>>>> www.epshumaninvest.se
>>>>>> Skype: eva.p.svensson
>>>>>> Facebook sida: EPS Human Invest AB
>>>>>> twitter:@EvaPSvensson
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *"Jag kan inte lära dig något. Allt jag kan göra är att ställa frågor
>>>>>> till dig, och låta dig själv finna svaren." Sokrates*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 10 aug. 2016 kl. 16:38 skrev Birgitt Williams via OSList <
>>>>>> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Harrison...one of the aspects of you that I love is that when you
>>>>>> participate, you engage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I witness many people participating and appearing engaged. And yet
>>>>>> upon probing after a participatory meeting, engagement was not sufficient
>>>>>> to create follow on action. I feel that this distinction between having a
>>>>>> participatory meeting and having the conditions for engagement is important
>>>>>> somehow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blessings,
>>>>>> Birgitt
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 5:52 PM Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Love to participate… and engage. So what so I do?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ho
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Winter Address
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Potomac, MD 20854
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 301-365-2093
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Summer Address
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 189 Beaucauire Ave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Camden, ME 04843
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 207 763-3261
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Websites
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> www.openspaceworld.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> www.ho-image.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:* OSList [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] *On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of *Birgitt Williams via OSList
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 9, 2016 8:49 AM
>>>>>>> *To:* OS list
>>>>>>> *Subject:* [OSList] a substantial difference
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear friends and colleagues,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One important question is "do you want to participate?". Hence
>>>>>>> participatory methods.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another important question is "do you want to engage?".  A totally
>>>>>>> different question with a different energy, both in its inquiry and its
>>>>>>> answer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The question that we align ourselves with as facilitators makes a
>>>>>>> substantial difference in our approach. I am wondering about the impact on
>>>>>>> our outcomes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Make a great day!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Birgitt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Birgitt Williams
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> President & Senior Consultant of Dalar International Consultancy, Inc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.dalarinternational.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Co-founder of the Extraordinary Leadership Network http://www.
>>>>>> extraordinaryleadershipnetwork.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Co-founder of the Genuine Contact™program and author of The Genuine
>>>>>> Contact Way: Nourishing a Culture of Leadership  http://www.
>>>>>> genuinecontactway.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Co-owner of the Genuine Contact Co-owners Group Ltd. http://www.
>>>>>> genuinecontact.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Supporting leadership development for leading in a culture requiring
>>>>>> agility and flexibility in a performance environment of constant change.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Leadership development at your own pace? Become a member of the
>>>>>> Extraordinary Leadership Network http://www.
>>>>>> extraordinaryleadershipnetwork.com to participate in an online
>>>>>> leadership development program designed to increase the leadership skills
>>>>>> and capacity you need to perform in a performance environment of constant
>>>>>> change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PO Box 19373, Raleigh, North Carolina, USA 27619
>>>>>>
>>>>>> phone: 1-919-522-7750
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OSList mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Harold Shinsato
>>>>>> harold at shinsato.com
>>>>>> http://shinsato.com
>>>>>> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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