[OSList] Zappos Being Zapped

Sat Jul 18 06:13:54 PDT 2015

I join Harrison is what he is saying.

"...if we want a speeded up, concentrated experience of self 
organization in action, we know what to do."

One time on the phone talking about this, Harrison (paraphasing,) you said:

"..the real operating system is self-organization. Everything is is [an 
app.]"

I like that quote.

Quoting the NYT article: some interesting items in it....

"The end result was what he refers to as an “operating system” for 
organizations."

...stop right there:
the holacracy people are really pushing this metaphor. "holacracy as 
operating system." Maybe not? Or maybe (scary idea) organizations are 
not machines at all. Maybe they are living systems? Which are not quite 
so easy to describe, manipulate, "program" ...and control?

"... Everyone must use the Holacracy software, called Glass Frog."

...wait:
Everyone MUST use? Really? How's that mandate actually working out?

"... Holacracy has been met with everything from cautious embrace to 
outright revulsion at Zappos, but little unequivocal enthusiasm."

...stop right there.
Maybe coercion is actually a bad idea?

"....I have five hours of meetings today.”"

...stop right there:
Are these meeting mandatory to attend? Can you opt-out of any of these 
"holacracy" meetings? Guessing no...

"... Mr. Hsieh sent a 4,700-word email to the entire company with an 
ultimatum: Embrace Holacracy or accept a buyout. "

...wait: an ultimatum? Does that actually work?
The spin is that all remaining employees are now "all-in." The reality 
is probably quite far from that:
https://medium.com/@DanielMezick/zappos-holacracy-and-real-options-don-t-commit-early-unless-you-know-why-ba8a7741b1b

"... For all of the talk of self-management and consensus building, the 
decision to go down this path was Mr. Hsieh’s alone."

Wait:
Is this a command, from authority, to self-organize? If so, how does 
that actually work?

"...Mr. Hsieh he emphasized that learning Holacracy was like learning a 
sport — it would take years to get good at it."

stop.right.there:
Could this be code for "it could take years to */replace/* everyone."  ????

If so, is this the new normal? Replace everyone? Does that actually 
count as a successful change/innovation program?

https://medium.com/@DanielMezick/adopting-holacracy-at-zappos-6664d70c0b5d

Self-organization: Do coercive mandates actually work?

If not: Is this what actually might scale? Is this what actually might work?

Daniel

On 7/18/15 8:05 AM, Harrison via OSList wrote:
>
> Rosa said... “I do think it would be kinda fun for all of that 
> self-organizing that is already happening anyway, to come up with some 
> alternative structures to the regular old pyramids we see all over the 
> place...a bit of color in the landscape, as it were...”
>
> Rosa --There is a big secret. “All that self-organizing” is coming up 
> with new structures every moment. “Structure” is actually an 
> inaccurate way of talking about what is happening... more like 
> patterns or flow of energy. “Flash framed” it does look like a 
> structure, but that is really an illusion. An artifact of our 
> perception. But it sort of works.
>
> Anyhow, it seems to me that there is some 13.7 billion years worth of 
> examples of just precisely what you are talking about. It is only very 
> recently that we (Homo sapiens) tried doing our own thing. Lots of 
> wonderful names (Process re-engineering, etc) but precious little 
> positive impact that I can see. Yes I know sometimes it seems that 
> these marvelous inventions of ours seem to work...and of course lots 
> of people make lots of money maintaining the illusion. But in moments 
> of honesty, usually over a drink, everybody who has been around, even 
> for a little bit, is totally aware that nothing ever happened 
> according to the plan, design, etc... When pushed for source, the 
> usual answer (given very quietly) is “The Informal System,” which by 
> definition nobody organized. And that drives Management to despair. In 
> fact they try to kill “the informal system” at every opportunity.
>
> Amazing, folks are busily containing, controlling, and destroying the 
> one thing that enables organizations to function. Is that nuts? Seems 
> to me that before we design anything new, it would be well to sit 
> quietly and fully appreciate what is already there, and doing quite 
> well. Thank you. And of course if we want a speeded up, concentrated 
> experience of self organization in action, we know what to do. Works 
> every time as long as we don’t try to organize it. Wonderful!
>
> Harrison
>
> Winter Address
>
> 7808 River Falls Drive
>
> Potomac, MD 20854
>
> 301-365-2093
>
> Summer Address
>
> 189 Beaucaire Ave.
>
> Camden, ME 04843
>
> 207-763-3261
>
> Websites
>
> www.openspaceworld.com <%20www.openspaceworld.com>
>
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>
> OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the 
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>
> *From:*OSList [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] *On 
> Behalf Of *Rosa Zubizarreta via OSList
> *Sent:* Friday, July 17, 2015 10:05 PM
> *To:* Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space Technology email list
> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Zappos Being Zapped
>
> Yes, Daniel, as you wrote, "mandating a process change is a recipe for 
> disaster."
>
> REGARDLESS of what the process is...
> but ESPECIALLY if it's one that's supposed to "help people feel more 
> empowered".
>
> for me, it's sad to see what's happening at Zappo's.
>
> especially because i happen to think that interlocking circles is a 
> fairly decent structure,
>
> as far as structures go...
>
> I'm not so much of a fan of the decision-making aspect of 
> holocracy/sociocracy...
>
> but the structural part feels fairly sound to me.
>
> i know the orthodoxy around here is that "it's all self-organizing 
> anyway"...
>
> at the same time, I do think it would be kinda fun for all of that 
> self-organizing that is already happening anyway,
>
> to come up with some alternative structures to the regular old 
> pyramids we see all over the place...
>
> a bit of color in the landscape, as it were...
>
> i guess we're just not that evolved yet! :-)
>
> with all best wishes,
>
> Rosa
>
>
> /Rosa Zubizarreta/
>
> /*www.DiaPraxis.com* <http://www.DiaPraxis.com>/
>
> Author of *From Conflict to Creative Collaboration* 
> <http://www.conflict2creativity.com>
>
> *recent Dynamic Facilitation deep dives:*
> May 26-28**near*Bonn, Germany <http://tinyurl.com/DFGermany2015>;* 
> June 12-16 in *Durham, NC 
> <http://www.solutiongeneratorsnetwork.org/1.0/dynamic-facilitation/>*<http://www.solutiongeneratorsnetwork.org/1.0/dynamic-facilitation/> 
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 7:08 PM, Daniel Mezick via OSList 
> <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org 
> <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>> wrote:
>
> Sheesh. Yes, and...
>
> ..I did some consulting for Zappos in prior years. As part of that, I 
> know Tony and have taken some meals with him, some at his home.
>
> In early 2014, I had lunch with Tony and some of his staff. A very 
> dear friend arranged the meeting.
>
> The purpose was to introduce him to Open Space and discuss how it 
> might be a good tool for helping encourage self-organization at the 
> Downtown project (DTP) and Zappos proper. During that meal, I left him 
> with a printed copy of the BRIEF GUIDE, and some pictures of what OST 
> in action looks like. Not too much stuff, just enough to hopefully get 
> him interested. A kind of invitation as it were.
>
> At the time, he described some issues with "holacracy" at the DTP and 
> Zappos itself. I explained how OST might actually be perfect given the 
> situation an timing. I left the meeting upbeat and thinking he might 
> go all the way.
>
> It didn't take.
>
> Later in March 2014, I wrote this:
> http://newtechusa.net/agile/the-mandate-of-holacracy-at-zappos/
>
>
> The self-organizing universe creates stories you just cannot make up.
>
> Example:
> https://pando.com/2015/07/08/staff-tony-hsiehs-downtown-project-voted-abandon-holacracy-nine-months-ago/fcbd6b7081af428b88d24fddd3fbadfbee6910ea/
>
> Regards,
> Daniel
>
> On 7/17/15 5:26 PM, Harrison via OSList wrote:
>
>     From the New York Times: *http://nyti.ms/1Jn1nwh *
>     <http://p.nytimes.com/email/re?location=InCMR7g4BCKC2wiZPkcVUlDMaFOsPrCW&user_id=d0877bb1019932ce3160783833511913&email_type=eta&task_id=1437166724712134&regi_id=0> Do
>     Love this story. Zappo is going to install holarchical, self
>     organizing management systems.  How many oxymoron’s can you get in
>     one sentence? And according to the Times, the big problem is that
>     nobody can understand what is going on. Marvelous! – As bright as
>     Homo sapiens may be, we really don’t have clue when it comes to
>     the complex, interconnected world on which we are momentarily
>     passengers. But no worries. It really doesn’t depend on “our
>     understanding.” A fact that “we” all experience each and every
>     time we have the privilege of “Opening Space.” We don’t understand
>     it. We don’t “do it.”  Seems to happen pretty much by itself. Just
>     marvelous... Holarchical, self organizing, management system!
>     Happens every time. All by itself.
>
>     Harrison
>
>     Winter Address
>
>     7808 River Falls Drive
>
>     Potomac, MD 20854
>
>     301-365-2093 <tel:301-365-2093>
>
>     Summer Address
>
>     189 Beaucaire Ave.
>
>     Camden, ME 04843
>
>     207-763-3261 <tel:207-763-3261>
>
>     Websites
>
>     www.openspaceworld.com <http://%20www.openspaceworld.com>
>
>     www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com>
>
>     OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
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> -- 
>
> Daniel Mezick, President
>
> New Technology Solutions Inc.
>
> (203) 915 7248 <tel:%28203%29%20915%207248> (cell)
>
> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog 
> <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter 
> <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.
>
> Examine my new book: The Culture Game 
> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the 
> Agile Manager.
>
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-- 

Daniel Mezick, President

New Technology Solutions Inc.

(203) 915 7248 (cell)

Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog 
<http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.

Examine my new book:The Culture Game 
<http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the 
Agile Manager.

Explore Agile Team Training 
<http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching. 
<http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>

Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>Community.

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