[OSList] OST: Public vs Private events: apples and oranges?

Mon Apr 27 16:42:19 PDT 2015

if you are asking if it's my experience that public and private events are
different, i can say yes, sometimes they are.  i think there can be
different mixes of those four conditions.  i can also say that i don't find
the public/private distinction a useful predictor of what to expect.  it
might be that number of hours or breakout sessions has something to do with
it.  it might be that number of people matters.  lots of potential
indicators, i imagine.

leaving that aside, i'm not sure at all that classifying meetings or events
in this way helps me know what to do differently going into it.  i always
have to be ready for anything, at least that's my experience of things.  i
do think that where those conditions are highest, facilitating might be
easiest.  the events tend to be longer and i can do less sooner.  but there
aren't any fixed rules about that. sooner is completely relative and needs
to be defined every time.

as for intent and advancing the work, i wasn't doubting or questioning your
intention to advance the work.  i just didn't hear a question so much as
maybe the beginning of telling us what advancing would be.  i heard what
sounded to me like statements, asking for agreement.  it seemed that
agreement to first statements might have logical implications that i hadn't
yet heard.

my "maybe" question is whether those agreements are necessary at all.
 public or private aside, some situations have more of those conditions
than others.  that's surely true.  it's worth noticing the relative levels
in the run-up to an event.  i don't think broad agreement about
public/private as the indicator is necessary to have a conversation about
what to do when these things run high.  or am i missing something?

i am curious what anyone can say about what are the *direct* indicators
that tell you that complexity or diversity or passion might be high?
 before or during an event?  where do you feel or see or taste it?  and
what do you do differently when you sense it?

if your default setting is that public and private are different, how do
you set them up differently?  is what you do in public events not ost, but
in orgs it is?

i find my own practice is pretty much the same everywhere, the inner
sensing i bring to the situation.  the quality of attention.  different
things happen every time, and some of them are the things i do differently.
 but the space that i point to is always the same.  is it different for you?

m

--

Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates
312-280-7838 (mobile)

http://MichaelHerman.com
http://OpenSpaceWorld.org

On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Daniel Mezick <dan at newtechusa.net> wrote:

>
>
> On 4/26/15 2:53 PM, Michael Herman wrote:
>
> it seems to me that the questions that might be raised a neighborhood or
> professional conference can be every bit as complex, the people every bit
> as diverse, and the passion just as high as in any organization where folks
> are getting paid to show up.
>
> yes and I suspect (strongly) that all things being equal, the private/org
> OST events have more of the preconditions in place, more often, than public
> events, especially with respect to Agile conferences, where I have some
> direct experience.
>
> the think organizations might be better at is manufacturing a sense of
> urgency.  perhaps they do that by constricting flow with deadlines and
> other constraints.
>
> yes and so?
>
>
>  coming from the other direction, it might be said that in more diffused
> settings, like communities and conferences, having the focus and bounding
> that an invitation and circle and meeting date provide are as beneficial as
> the opening in an organization.
>
> yes, and all other things being equal, once again, i think this is
> unlikely in my view. the cohesion and intrigue and history of relationships
> and cultural stories by and between the members is likely to much richer
> inside organizations, since the people have closer proximity, higher
> frequency of interactions, over longer period of time etc. just saying
>
>
>  this leaves aside the messiness of trying to decide where private
> becomes public.  what about when companies open space with clients.  what
> is it when the mayor of harrisonburg or the city of aspen or the school
> board in peoria convenes the gathering(s)?
>
> yes and i did directly address this exceptionin the original post.
> communities and communities of practice being the obvious hybrid/grey area.
> that said, once again all other things being equal, i currently believe the
> private event is richer.
>
> consider the public event where unconference and barcamp are often used
> instead of OST. why? perhaps because cohesion & commitment is lower in
> public vs private events...all other things being equal once again that
> is....
>
>
>  i guess i don't understand why it matters to determine if opening space
> is more or less effective in organization or professional conference.  and
> i'm not sure we can even know, even if it did matter.
>
> yes and it does matter. it matters a lot. it matters when we try to
> develop more precise language to describe what we are talking about when we
> discuss OST.
>
>
>  in 2002, i facilitated only just a slice, one track, of the agile/xp
> conference, for instance.  it was messy, for sure.  my briefing was from
> the podium in front of a ballroom theater of 300 seated, having just heard
> three hours of keynotes.  the wall and posters and all the trimmings were
> around the corner and down the hall in another room that nobody'd seen yet.
>  the actual posting of topics didn't happen until after they went to lunch
> and some of them came over to the room i'd prepared.
>
>  it seemed to work and not.  it was a little weird for me and yet there
> was much of the familiar energy and self-organizing.  that said, i was
> quite surprised, EIGHT years later, one of the agile alliance board members
> told me he thought that it had been hugely successful and with important
> results that were continuing.
>
> yes, and novelty is a wonderful thing. right? i wonder how much novelty
> was produced that day, and how many people (what percentage of them....70?
> 80? 95?) were introduced to open space that day, thus generating said
> novelty
>
>  that's an unscientific sample and it wasn't the only contributing
> factor, but that we did it did seem to matter, and contribute something to
> the connection between agile and open space.
>
> yes and the agile community has done little in terms of
> disciplined/methodical/scientific experimenting, studying, generating case
> studies and documenting the results of creatively using OST in agile
> adoptions. as it stands, very little evidence has been generated that might
> indicate frequent use of OST to facilitate the pain of process-change in an
> agile context. rather we continue to use OST in mere
> public-Agile-conference events. this is now changing and more rapidly.
>
>
>  IF we all agreed that there was something very different about public
> and private os meetings, WHAT would that accomplish or imply?
>
>  what would we do differently?  what difference would it make in our
> practicing?
>
> We might consider the distinctions to a) advance the state of the art, b)
> develop more know-how in both situations, and c) maybe just maybe get
> better at bringing development and transformation to organizations,
> especially in an agile-process-change context, and especially in large,
> slow-to-change organizations that represent the largest challenges to
> success with rapid and lasting development and transformation. that is my
> odd fascination, and my intent in raising the issue generally.
>
>  would we stop facilitating conferences or community events?  probably
> not, i think.  would we open differently in organizations and communities?
>  well, i think we already probably open a bit differently in every
> different place we go.  it's always starts with whatever people are there
> in a new place where we're invited to work.  i'm not sure where this can
> lead us.
>
> yes, and that is a great starting point, is it not? close to ideal
> perhaps...
>
>
>  wondering, daniel, is this an exploration of uncharted territory or are
> you laying the groundwork for a larger story.  IF what you say is
> absolutely true, where do we go?  can we go there even if the answer is
> "maybe?"
>
> yea and in general, there is an allergy around the use of precise
> language. the vague language with fewer terms and words and words with
> multiple meanings can be the cause of many sorrows for those trying to
> learn this stuff. consider the newb on OSLIST how it trying to grok this
> stuff. How does vague language that does not make distinctions between this
> and that context serve that new student? as it stands, there is no
> agreed-upon definition for OST, because OST is a spirit that defies
> definition. and even when it does not, there are plenty of people that are
> happy to to the defying. the five preconditions for good OST provide a
> starting point for discussion. what you are really asking is "what is your
> intent Daniel?" and the intent is to advance the work.
>
>
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  m
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Michael Herman
> Michael Herman Associates
> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>
> http://MichaelHerman.com
> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 12:43 PM, Daniel Mezick via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
>>  Yo Harrison,
>>
>> Where are you lately hearing about 'scaling up' OST?
>>
>> I'm interested in knowing the origin of that.
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> On 4/26/15 12:12 PM, Harrison via OSList wrote:
>>
>>   To add a bit... The 4 (actually 5) “preconditions” were simply what I,
>> and others, had observed to be the situation. I can’t actually remember,
>> but I think my original motivation was to question what seemed to be the
>> conventional wisdom regarding what it took to have a good meeting. I think
>> we all know the drill – there should be a clear agenda, closely ordered
>> procedure, something close to absolute control, and the like. With thoughts
>> like these in mind, Open Space was not only counterintuitive, but wrong,
>> dangerous, and obviously heretical. What we were experiencing was
>> definitely a horse of a different color.
>>
>>
>>
>> And yes, Jeff, there is certainly no “requirement” that all conditions be
>> at maximum red alert. That said, if none are present there would seem to be
>> little reason have a meeting, let alone Open Space. After all who would
>> want to waste the time when there was no business issue, everything was
>> crystal clear, everyone thought exactly the same way, no passion or
>> conflict, and the sense of urgency non-existent? Sounds like a non-starter
>> to me. Then again it constantly amazes me that every day in organizations
>> all over the world folks hold meetings just because you are supposed to. Is
>> it any wonder that people are bored, disengaged, and cynical?
>>
>>
>>
>> But actually what really got me excited was when I realized that my “5
>> Preconditions” almost exactly paralleled the essential preconditions for
>> self organization as described by Stuart Kauffmann and others. That made a
>> connection which produced my greatest learning in and about Open Space. It
>> is all self organization. It is not a process we/I created, invented, or
>> whatever. All we actually “do” is to invite people to remember what they
>> have been doing for ever. Well at least for the last 13.7 billion years.
>>
>>
>>
>> And just for a tag line .... to those who might be thinking about
>> “scaling up” Open Space, I would suggest you save your energy. It’s already
>> happened. It is all self organizing. It is all open space. Of course it is
>> true that things get pretty sloppy and gooey when we set about organizing a
>> self organizing system. Oh well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Harrison
>>
>>
>>
>> Winter Address
>>
>> 7808 River Falls Drive
>>
>> Potomac, MD 20854
>>
>> 301-365-2093
>>
>>
>>
>> Summer Address
>>
>> 189 Beaucaire Ave.
>>
>> Camden, ME 04843
>>
>> 207-763-3261
>>
>>
>>
>> Websites
>>
>> www.openspaceworld.com <http://%20www.openspaceworld.com>
>>
>> www.ho-image.com
>>
>> OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives
>> of OSLIST Go to:
>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* OSList [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
>> <oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org>] *On Behalf Of *Jeff Aitken via
>> OSList
>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 26, 2015 11:31 AM
>> *To:* Daniel Mezick; World wide Open Space Technology email list
>> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] OST: Public vs Private events: apples and
>> oranges?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Daniel. When Harrison's four conditions came out way back when, I
>> imagined them as a way to tell a client that even in the most challenging
>> situation it's quite possible that Open Space will work very well. In other
>> words, don't hesitate to consider it, even if you're afraid things are just
>> too messy to try this strange new process.
>>
>>
>>
>> Having hosted and seen many great open spaces in which the scores were
>> low, so to speak,  I never took seriously that these are absolute
>> preconditions. To me they are a kind of inoculation against a prospective
>> sponsor being afraid to make that phone call or send that email.
>>
>>
>>
>> With lots of appreciation for your good work
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> Lagunitas, California
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Daniel Mezick via OSList
>> Date:04/26/2015 6:20 AM (GMT-08:00)
>> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
>> Subject: [OSList] OST: Public vs Private events: apples and oranges?
>>
>> Greetings All,
>>
>> ...I notice these well-worn, well-understood set of starting conditions
>> for great Open Space, on Wikipedia...hmm...
>>
>> <WIKIPEDIA>
>> Hundreds of Open Space meetings have been documented.[4]
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Space_Technology#cite_note-4>[5]
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Space_Technology#cite_note-5>
>> Harrison Owen explains that this approach works best when these conditions
>> are present,[3]
>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Space_Technology#cite_note-OST-3>
>> namely high levels of
>>
>>    1. *Complexity*, in terms of the tasks to be done or outcomes
>>    achieved;
>>    2. *Diversity*, in terms of the people involved and/or needed to make
>>    any solution work;
>>    3. *Conflict, real or potential*, meaning people really care about
>>    the central issue or purpose; and
>>    4. *Urgency*, meaning that the time to act was "yesterday".
>>
>> </WIKIPEDIA>
>>
>>
>> In an organization, we could work with formally authorized leaders to
>> gauge the magnitude of each dimension. So for example we could gauge or
>> rank the magnitude, with 1 being lowest and 10 being the highest magnitude
>> for gauging each dimension. For a really nice opportunity to use Open
>> Space, we might be looking for a combined score of, say, 32 or higher (out
>> of a possible 40)
>>
>>
>>
>> The Public Conference Event
>>
>> Now let's consider the PUBLIC conference event. What is the typical
>> combined score in a public conference... for these 4 elements? I am
>> guessing the combined score is something like 20 or lower for the typical
>> conference event. Maybe 25 out of a perfect 40? The cohesion is just
>> (generally speaking!) *so much lower* in a public vs org-based (private)
>> event...
>>
>>
>> <HERESY>
>> And that is why I think OST is for "development and transformation in
>> organizations" (that actual subtitle of the SPIRIT book) and that it is not
>> at all as effective, in terms of impact, when implemented in a public
>> conference.
>> </HERESY>
>>
>> I am guessing the scores for the 4 dimensions are almost always be lower
>> in a public vs. private event.
>>
>> Certainly that is my general subjective observation, based on a small
>> sample of direct experience (less than 20 experiences doing OST inside
>> corporations...)
>>
>> ...Yes: some exceptions do exist. As is almost always the case. Right?
>> That said, I feel these exceptions prove the general rule... that private
>> events have a much higher combined score, all else being equal.
>>
>> Ironically, the OST format was originally formulated to ease the effort
>> required to arrange and execute public conference events.
>>
>> And then....
>>
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>>  --
>>
>>  Daniel Mezick, President
>>
>> New Technology Solutions Inc.
>>
>> (203) 915 7248 <%28203%29%20915%207248> (cell)
>>
>> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog
>> <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter
>> <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.
>>
>> Examine my new book:  The Culture Game
>> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the
>> Agile Manager.
>>
>> Explore Agile Team Training
>> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching.
>> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>
>>
>> Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net/user-groups/ma/>
>> Community.
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>> OSList mailing list
>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Daniel Mezick, President
>>
>> New Technology Solutions Inc.
>>
>> (203) 915 7248 <%28203%29%20915%207248> (cell)
>>
>> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog
>> <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter
>> <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.
>>
>> Examine my new book:  The Culture Game
>> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the
>> Agile Manager.
>>
>> Explore Agile Team Training
>> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching.
>> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>
>>
>> Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>
>> Community.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OSList mailing list
>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org
>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>> Past archives can be viewed here:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Daniel Mezick, President
>
> New Technology Solutions Inc.
>
> (203) 915 7248 (cell)
>
> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog
> <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter
> <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.
>
> Examine my new book:  The Culture Game
> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the Agile
> Manager.
>
> Explore Agile Team Training
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and Coaching.
> <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>
>
> Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net//user-groups/ma/>
> Community.
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20150427/e24aa6f7/attachment-0003.htm>