[OSList] Open Space and Holacracy
Kári Gunnarsson
kari.gunnarsson at simnet.is
Fri Mar 7 14:25:32 PST 2014
In a point made by Daniel, as I am able to read it, the real difference of
a engagement where he would walk away is in the way the leadership
approaches the change. The difference of a mandate and an invitation. So in
the instalment of a system say agile or some type of holarchy (with small
'h'), there is more the one approach.
As I understand the point made by Greg Bloom, then we have an opportunity
to experiment with large organizations and see how we bring open space
better to the operational dimension. There may be some new way to approach
principles based of experience that could facilitate this dimension, it
will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I am learning much from this interesting exchange, perhaps the Holocrasy
(with large 'H') people are working way to hard with to many reports to
write up for there books of proceedings and far to lengthy structured
conversation on basic decision-making with to many of the people (but that
should partly be taken care of with the rules in 2.3 see the
http://holacracy.org/constitution). But we still have the problem of
mandated decision making meetings for the "sponsor group".
On a coincidence note, then I also found some relationship on the medicine
wheel and the four basic roles of the holons (circles). Somehow the deer is
like the Lead Link, the eagle is like the Rep Link, the mouse is like the
Facilitator, the bear is like the Secretary.
with best regards
/Kári
On 7 March 2014 15:35, Daniel Mezick <dan at newtechusa.net> wrote:
> Let's see. Quick inventory:
>
>
> - *Questions* tend to "open space". Invitations are questions & end
> with a question mark.
> - *Statements* tend to "close space". Mandates are statements & end
> with a period.
> - *Everything* real and genuine and authentic runs on human engagement
> (aka "passion+responsibility").
> - *Invitations* tend to increase levels of engagement.
> - *Mandates* tend to increase levels of DIS engagement.
> - *Open Space* results in higher levels of engagement.
> - *Intentions* equal Results.
>
>
> Therefore:
>
>
> - The intention of doing a genuine Open Space is to increase
> engagement.
> - The intent of a genuine mandate is increase DIS engagement
>
>
> Seems simple enough.
>
> And this is why I routinely walk away from "opportunities" to help bring
> Agile to organizations, when formally authorized leadership opts-out of
> opening space.
>
> Daniel
>
>
> On 3/6/14 1:04 PM, Harrison Owen wrote:
>
> Christine said - "Are we "working too hard" when we try to work
> differently ?Do you believe that Zappos would have end up anyway with same
> performance without the hard work of implementing Holacracy ? Anyway, we
> will never know..."
>
>
>
> I have no problem working differently, in fact at the moment I don't think
> we are working differently enough. As I see it, the names change, the
> processes change, but the fundamental presuppositions remain unchanged.
> Whether the issue is implementing Holarchy or a Dictatorship, the premise
> is that organization is something we do and we control. Doubtless Holarchy
> is more humane than a Dictatorship, but I think they both come from the
> same place, the same fundamental premise - that organization (my
> organization, your organization) is our creature. We design it, we create
> it, we control it.
>
>
>
> Real difference comes with a change in premises, I think. Speaking just
> for myself, I find this to be a self organizing world, beginning, middle,
> and end. Even those organizations we think we organized end of being self
> organizing the moment we push the start button. So really working
> differently, and I think much smarter, efficiently, effectively, with
> greater joy and less effort, would start from that basic point: All the
> world is self organizing. We don't create it, we don't control it, but we
> can live in it productively. We can learn to enhance our ability for such
> living, and we can assist others to do the same. And how might that work?
>
>
>
> The first step is to watch and appreciate what is happening all by itself
> before we even think about doing anything. And Open Space can be our guide.
> As we see all the time in Open Space, organization starts when passion and
> responsibility intersect around an issue or opportunity. If it is exciting,
> people will come, and the next thing you know you have a group of "two or
> more gathered together to do something" - which would be my definition of
> organization. The process and structure is totally emergent with no help
> needed. Happens all by itself. And as we have learned, intervention is not
> only not necessary, it actually mucks up the emergent process.
>
>
>
> It may happen that this nascent organization will die (When it's over it's
> over) or it may continue and grow (Whoever comes is the right people.
> Whatever happens is the only thing that could have.) Given a little time it
> could become the next Intel, Microsoft, Facebook...!
>
>
>
> Obviously the distance between a small nexus of passion and responsibility
> and a giant corporation is considerable - but even the giants started as
> "two or more gathered together" and I don't think the rules change along
> the way. It is all fractal, and just as an OS for 10 works just like one
> for 2000 so also in the world at large (larger), I think.
>
>
>
> And what can we do along the journey? First, appreciate what's happening.
> Second, keep the space open. Third, offer our passion and responsibility
> wherever we care to - which can provide new energy for growth, new
> inspiration, new ideas. That is just for "openers" and for more I refer you
> to Part II of "Wave Rider," "The Wave Rider's Guide to the Future." I don't
> pretend that is the whole story, but it could be a useful place to start -
> and you can write the rest. J
>
>
>
> And then to your comment: "My feeling is also that people tend to prefer
> when they understand how things work (otherwise they get anxious), and in
> this regard self-organization may make things uneasy. Who can tell how it
> works ?" Christine, you are 100% CORRECT! Which creates a major problem for
> all 7 1/2 billion of us on Planet Earth which resides in a tiny corner of a
> second rate solar system, lost in a relatively minor galaxy...one of
> billions and billions. It also seems that something like 96% of everything
> is unknown and unknowable (Dark Energy and Dark matter) - and the remaining
> 4% (what we can theoretically see) is more than a little foggy when it
> comes to our capacity for understanding. The fact that all of it, so far as
> we can understand, J is self organizing is icing on the cake called
> "Uneasy".
>
>
>
> But we may have found a way out...just fabricate a version of reality we
> can understand and control. That should do it.
>
>
>
> Harrison
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>
> Potomac, MD 20854
>
> USA
>
>
>
> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
>
> Camden, Maine 04843
>
>
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> (summer) 207-763-3261
>
>
>
> www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com%20>
>
> www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com%20> (Personal Website)
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> OSLIST Go to:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>
>
>
> *From:* oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [
> mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org<oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *christine koehler
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 05, 2014 3:48 PM
> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Open Space and Holacracy
>
>
>
> Harrison,
>
> Maybe I am beginning to get it. Maybe not.
>
> You say self-organization is already there, no matter what we do or dont
> do. ok.
>
> Maybe the question is not about self-organisation but about high
> performance : Hsieh, Gore, Semler's visions only say something about how
> they see high performance flow from/in/thru the system. Might be an attempt
> to control it, by naming it Holacracy, or even self organization ?
> However, from what they say, their way of controling it might end up with
> higher levels of performance than "command and control"systems. Using Open
> Space creates conditions for high performance. But then, should we just
> stop doing deciding and trying things because no matter what we do the
> system will self-organize ?
>
> Are we "working too hard" when we try to work differently ?Do you believe
> that Zappos would have end up anyway with same performance withoug the hard
> work of implementing Holacracy ? Anyway, we will never know...
>
> My feeling is also that people tend to prefer when they understand how
> things work (otherwise they get anxious), and in this regard
> self-organization may make things uneasy. Who can tell how it works ? If
> you take decision making for instance, and if I take Wosonos as an example,
> sometimes the decision making process for the location on the next one is
> so obvious to everybody who go through it that everything seems easy and
> clear. But sometimes , and for reasons that are quite unclear to me, it
> seems that the some people are not happy and the decision maling process is
> questioned. Of course this is true with any decision making process, maybe
> it's just that some processes are easier to describe. Our brain needs to be
> able to simplify complex processes in order to be comfortable with it.
>
> Right now I am experiencing something interesting : for a management
> seminar, a few groups emerged from what I could call a very simplistic "law
> of 2 feet" decision making process. ie there was offered opportunity for 5
> groups to emerge, and so it went. (why 5 ? well, that was completely
> arbitrary. probably because timing was short and that there were only very
> short time to get feedbacks fro the groupn as feedback was required) .
> After the seminar where people are asked to work further on those topics.
> Management decided not to let leaders of those groups use the law of 2
> feets but members could. (I agree this is a strange rule). What is
> happening is that they are questioning the decision making process : how do
> we know those topics are the most important ones ? is this group the best
> to work on such particular topic ? How can I feel legitimate in being the
> leader of this group as it is not my dayjob ? etc.. Would you say that they
> are working too hard ? That the system will take care of itself and anyway
> self-organize, no matter what we do ?
>
>
>
>
>
> Christine
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 11:27 PM, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Christine ... "I find very interesting this tension between personal
> vision (think about Gore for instance or Semler and Semco) and
> self-organization. looks very complex and human to me ;)
>
> but still wondering how self-organization fits within this kind of frame."
>
>
>
> It is really easy. Self Organization is already there, but the poor folks
> at Zappo think they did it! Surprise - what they really did was complicate
> something that could have happened very easily by itself. Ah! But we humans
> have to feel we are in control. Even when we say we aren't and don't care
> to be. The Trojan Horse rides again. Zappo'd as it were.
>
>
>
> ho
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>
> Potomac, MD 20854
>
> USA
>
>
>
> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
>
> Camden, Maine 04843
>
>
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> (summer) 207-763-3261
>
>
>
> www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com%20>
>
> www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com%20> (Personal Website)
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> OSLIST Go to:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>
>
>
> *From:* oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [mailto:
> oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] *On Behalf Of *christine koehler
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 04, 2014 2:35 PM
>
>
> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Open Space and Holacracy
>
>
>
> This reminds me of a very short conversation I had with a participant of
> the Practice of Peace seminar last January. He had left Zappos not so long
> ago. We exchanged a few words about the ambiguity of Tony Hsieh mandating
> Zappos to become holacratic, because it was his own personal vision.
>
> I find very interesting this tension between personal vision (think about
> Gore for instance or Semler and Semco) and self-organization.
>
> looks very complex and human to me ;)
>
> but stlll wondering how self-organization fits within this kind of frame.
>
> Christine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Christine, Zappo Holarchs "rolled out" according to the following...
> Sounds like sort of a mandate to me. ho
>
>
>
>
> http://qz.com/161210/zappos-is-going-holacratic-no-job-titles-no-managers-no-hierarchy
>
>
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>
> Potomac, MD 20854
>
> USA
>
>
>
> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
>
> Camden, Maine 04843
>
>
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
>
> (summer) 207-763-3261
>
>
>
> www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com%20>
>
> www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com%20> (Personal Website)
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> OSLIST Go to:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>
>
>
> *From:* oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [mailto:
> oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] *On Behalf Of *Christine Whitney
> Sanchez
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 04, 2014 12:46 PM
>
>
> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Open Space and Holacracy
>
>
>
> Great post, Daniel. Our company worked with Tony Hseigh's Downtown Las
> Vegas Project last year and found the whole thing to be very
> self-organizing.
>
>
>
> I'm surprised that Zappos is imposing any kind of mandate - where did you
> discover this?
>
>
>
> Namasté,
>
> Christine
>
> Christine Whitney Sanchez, Partner
> Innovation Partners International
> Phoenix, AZ, USA +1.480.759.0262
> www.innovationpartners.com
>
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Dan Mezick <dan at newtechusa.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> An invitation arouses curiousity, but a mandate dries up
>
> the bones... Ancient Proverb
>
>
>
> The Mandate of Holacracy at Zappos:
>
>
>
> http://newtechusa.net/agile/the-mandate-of-holacracy-at-zappos/
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2014, at 11:36 AM, "Harrison Owen" <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:
>
> Wikipedia (as usual) has everything you wanted to know... go to --
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holacracy
>
> I can certainly imagine Open Space playing a role in Holacracies, and in
> fact the "governance" in a Open Space could certainly be described as
> "Holacratic" -- which is to say "ruling power" is totally distributed
> amongst the participants. But there is a real difference. Holacracy in Open
> Space is totally an emergent phenomenon. Nobody designed it, nobody
> implements it -- it just shows up all by itself. Holacracy in places like
> Zappos is a designed phenomenon. Doubtless it works pretty well, but it
> does
> seem to me that they may be working a little too hard, creating something
> that can and does happen all by itself. I think.
>
> Harrison
>
> Harrison Owen
> 7808 River Falls Dr.
> Potomac, MD 20854
> USA
>
> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
> Camden, Maine 04843
>
> Phone 301-365-2093
> (summer) 207-763-3261
>
> www.openspaceworld.com
> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of OSLIST
> Go to:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org<oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org>]
> On Behalf Of Kári Gunnarsson
> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2014 11:20 AM
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Open Space and Holacracy
>
> I heard that Holacracy is somehow based upon the principles of Open Space
> and uses Open space for its implementation.
>
> On 4 March 2014 08:53, Rob van der Eyden
> <robvandereyden at veranderarchitect.nl> wrote:
>
> Hello Kári,
>
>
>
> Interesting question. How do you see the link between Open space and
>
> Holacracy?
>
>
>
> Kind regards, Rob van der Eyden
>
>
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
>
> Van: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
>
> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org<oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org>]
> Namens Kári Gunnarsson
>
> Verzonden: maandag 3 maart 2014 21:52
>
> Aan: Open Space Forum
>
> Onderwerp: [OSList] Open Space and Holacracy
>
>
>
> There have been much talk about the relationship of the organizational
>
> chart and how Open Space operates. Recent compareson to me has been to
>
> link the new self-organizing authority and decision-making system
>
> called Holacracy
>
> see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holacracy
>
>
>
> I wonder if there are stories on the use of Open space to transform
>
> more traditional system to one of Open Space based Holacracy? I would
>
> be happy to learn some of your experiences in this regard.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Kári Gunnarsson
>
> kari.gunnarsson at simnet.is
>
> gsm: +354 8645189
>
>
>
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> --
> Kári Gunnarsson
> kari.gunnarsson at simnet.is
> gsm: +354 8645189 <%2B354%208645189>
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> --
>
> [image: Christine Koehler, créatrice d'espace de Dialogue et de
> Coopération]
> Executive Coach, Médiateur
> www.christine-koehler.fr
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> Executive Coach, Médiateur
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>
> Daniel Mezick, President
>
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>
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