[OSList] Open Space with Agile: Failure patterns

Mon Sep 30 02:20:08 PDT 2013

Thank you Arno.  I had missed Michael Herman's two posts and so glad I got
to sink in them now on this day in Serbia with Jasmina Nikolic, a short
vacation but also working and breathing in Open Space together in work and
play. Thank you also Michael... again for these insights.

Suzanne

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Arno Baltin <arno at tlu.ee> wrote:

> Thank you, Michael!
> It helps, when I know the origin of the saying.
>
> Be well,
>
> Arno
>
>
>
> *    *
>
>
> 2013/9/28 Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>
>
>> I learned this phrase in the context of meditation, Arno. I've heard
>> meditation teachers say about meditation practice that if we just "do the
>> practice" we'll get the results… usually this is in contrast to simply
>> talking about the practice or listening to teachings. This is akin to
>> saying "anyone with a good head and good heart can do open space…"  anyone
>> who does the practice can get the same results that os
>> teachers/practitioners, from harrison onward, have gotten.  Does this help?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, September 27, 2013, Arno Baltin wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> I like this conversation about what OS is. And this practice notion is a
>>> bit complicated. I as non Enlgish speaker I looked for the meanings of the
>>> word and got confused. Could you Michael say it in other words what you
>>> mean that OS is practice (first of all). Especially when I read "do the
>>> practice" I cant understand the meaning.
>>>
>>> Be well,
>>>
>>> Arno
>>>
>>>
>>> *    *
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/9/25 Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>
>>>
>>>> When I hear folks simplifying open space into a tool or technique, my
>>>> usual response is to point out that circle is a tool, bulletin board is a
>>>> tool, etc.  Open Space is a *practice*, incorporating a number of
>>>> these different tools.  And hopefully, my use of them together is getting
>>>> more and more skillful over time.  To me, "practice" includes the
>>>> suggestion that we do it once, as best we can, and then we try again, and
>>>> again, learning and refining as we go.
>>>>
>>>> My felt sense of this is a little different from "values and
>>>> principles" though I don't think calling OS or agile or scrum that is
>>>> incorrect.  For me the difference is that I hold values and principles, but
>>>> practice is something that *holds me*.
>>>>
>>>> I also like to suggest that open space is a robust practice, a
>>>> sufficient practice.  Everything that's needed is there in the basic story
>>>> and mechanisms.  We don't need to do anything more, add in different
>>>> things.  Just do the practice and we get the experience, get the learning,
>>>> the performance, the self-organizing, the breathing.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your story, Harold.
>>>>
>>>> M
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Michael Herman
>>>> Michael Herman Associates
>>>> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>>>>
>>>> http://MichaelHerman.com
>>>> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Peggy Holman <peggy at peggyholman.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Harold,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for bringing your knowledgable and eloquent perspective.
>>>>>
>>>>> Great to see these two communities working through an understanding of
>>>>> each other.  With you and others as translators, I think Agile is in good
>>>>> hands.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peggy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     __________________________________
>>>>> Peggy Holman
>>>>> Journalism that Matters
>>>>> 15347 SE 49th Place
>>>>> Bellevue, WA  98006
>>>>> 425-746-6274
>>>>> www.journalismthatmatters.org
>>>>> www.peggyholman.com
>>>>> Twitter: @peggyholman
>>>>> JTM Twitter: @JTMStream
>>>>>
>>>>> *Enjoy the award winning* Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval into
>>>>> Opportunity <http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/>
>>>>> Check out my series on what's emerging in the news & information
>>>>> ecosystem<http://www.journalismthatmatters.net/the_emerging_news_and_information_eco_system>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 23, 2013, at 7:53 AM, Harold Shinsato <harold at SHINSATO.COM>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Harrison,
>>>>>
>>>>> About your statement "Open Space is a terrible way to introduce some
>>>>> new process, and especially to assure 'buy in'".
>>>>>
>>>>> You're clearing going directly against the heart of what Dan is trying
>>>>> to promote. Maybe I invite disaster for myself by speaking an alternative
>>>>> view from what you are saying given your founding status of this community
>>>>> - but perhaps given my 12+ years working in the Agile space - I have
>>>>> something worthwhile to say.
>>>>>
>>>>> Harrison, you've been opposed to calling "Open Space" a tool. And I
>>>>> hear Lisa Heft (the best Open Space trainer) talking about it being a tool
>>>>> all the time.
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with both of you. Open Space is most emphatically *not* a tool
>>>>> at it's heart. It's a set of values and principles. But it is also
>>>>> definitely a tool. Or as Dan says, a 'game'. A beautifully designed game.
>>>>>
>>>>> Agile is most DEFINITELY not a process. It's a set of values and
>>>>> principles. You can see this in the Agile Manifesto<http://agilemanifesto.org/>- especially the first item, we value Individuals and Interactions *over*
>>>>> Processes and Tools. Yes, the Agile community applies many very specific
>>>>> tools and processes. And very heated debates happen around the application
>>>>> (or misapplication) of those tools and processes, such as Scrum.
>>>>>
>>>>> But oddly - even Scrum isn't *Really* a tool or a process. At the
>>>>> heart of Scrum is also a set of principles and values. If you want to get a
>>>>> sense of this - go to the end of the first book on Scrum, by Schwaber &
>>>>> Beedle "Agile Software Development with Scrum" - where it lists the 5
>>>>> values of Scrum - Commitment, Focus, Openness, Respect & Courage. Or read
>>>>> Tobias Meyer's "The People's Scrum". Very powerful assertion and meditation
>>>>> on the core values and how to apply the processes to get
>>>>>
>>>>> Open Space has already been used with great success to introduce,
>>>>> promote and sustain Agile in the world through many uses of Open Space in
>>>>> conferences such as the AgileOpen, Coaching Camps, and Open Agile Adoption
>>>>> such as what Dan Mezick is explaining. From my vantage point, Open Space is
>>>>> critical for helping the values and principles to be successfully absorbed.
>>>>>
>>>>> From my vantage point - Open Space Technology's values and principles
>>>>> are eternal and aren't going away. The Universe won't suddenly stop
>>>>> self-organizing. If anything, we'll only get better at understanding and
>>>>> dancing with Order and Chaos. This dance, with the help of Open Space
>>>>> Technology the Game (or Tool) has changed my life and infused it with
>>>>> spirit. I'm eternally grateful to you, Harrison, to Lisa Heft, and to and
>>>>> this community. And maybe Open Space Technology the game or tool will pass
>>>>> away. The same goes for Agile values and principles. They're eternal.
>>>>> They're not going away. The Process will never be more important than the
>>>>> Individuals. The People are always more important than the Game.
>>>>>
>>>>> BUT - there are powerful forces behind trying to adopt agile as merely
>>>>> a tool or a process, because it's easier to understand. And that invites
>>>>> failure - and it's the exact kind of failure you're writing about,
>>>>> Harrison, about how our creations are "inevitably clunky." To succeed, any
>>>>> implementation of Agile or Scrum needs to be able to self-organize -
>>>>> "Inspect and Adapt" is one of the anthems of the agile and scrum
>>>>> communities. I hope that the Open Space community will step up and help the
>>>>> Agile community to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Thanks,
>>>>>     Harold
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/22/13 10:45 AM, Harrison Owen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan wrote: “I've learned that there are actually more ways to fail
>>>>> with Open Space in Agile adoptions than there are ways to succeed. There
>>>>> are many ways to stumble when trying this.”****
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, Dan – I am not at all surprised. I learned a long time ago
>>>>> that Open Space is a terrible way to introduce some new process, and
>>>>> especially to assure “buy in.” Typically, problems arise because folks take
>>>>> Open Space seriously. Instead of buying into the proposed process, they
>>>>> begin to invent their own! Somewhere I wrote that OS was a great way to
>>>>> design a new accounting system, but a horrible way to “implement” it.*
>>>>> ***
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And just to be contrarian... I wonder whether the failure is a
>>>>> function of Open Space or Agile (and/or the SCRUM flavor of Agile)? As I
>>>>> think we have come to understand, Open Space is a total scam if people
>>>>> mistake it for some process we invented or “do.” It is simply an invitation
>>>>> to be what we always have been – self organizing. The process itself (SO)
>>>>> has been around for some time, and apparently has done quite well, witness
>>>>> the fact that we, along with all the rest of the Cosmos are here and
>>>>> seemingly functional. In a “face off” between a well functioning
>>>>> self-organizing system and any process we might have designed to create the
>>>>> system, install the system, or enhance the system – the designed process
>>>>> doesn’t have a chance. The reason is simple. No matter how wise, careful,
>>>>> diligent or skillful we may be – our creation is inevitably clunky. We may
>>>>> get the big blocks right, even some of the finer points, but at the end of
>>>>> the day we always miss the nuances – and as always, the devil is in the
>>>>> details. Put somewhat differently, our designed processes are always
>>>>> “averages” of what we think the process should look like. And “averages” do
>>>>> not exist anywhere in nature. To push an “average” on a natural system is
>>>>> always to make it function at some sub-optimal level, and usually to kill
>>>>> it.****
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> So maybe the order of precedence should go the other way? Use Agile to
>>>>> introduce Open Space, and then abolish Agile. Or, if you like ...
>>>>> Self-Organization is the natural agility. It doesn’t get any better than
>>>>> that. Or something****
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Harrison****
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Harrison Owen****
>>>>>
>>>>> 7808 River Falls Dr.****
>>>>>
>>>>> Potomac, MD 20854****
>>>>>
>>>>> USA****
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)****
>>>>>
>>>>> Camden, Maine 04843****
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Phone 301-365-2093****
>>>>>
>>>>> (summer)  207-763-3261****
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> www.openspaceworld.com ****
>>>>>
>>>>> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)****
>>>>>
>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
>>>>> OSLIST Go to:
>>>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org**
>>>>> **
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [
>>>>> mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] *On Behalf Of *Daniel
>>>>> Mezick
>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2013 11:26 AM
>>>>> *To:* oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
>>>>> *Subject:* [OSList] Open Space with Agile: Failure patterns****
>>>>>
>>>>> ** **
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings to you,
>>>>>
>>>>> In Paris this week at the Global Scrum Gathering I plan to issue
>>>>> certain warning about specific failure patterns I have experienced when
>>>>> working with Open Space inside Agile adoptions. I can tell you right now
>>>>> that Open Space by itself is not a panacea for the complex problems
>>>>> associated with Agile adoption.
>>>>>
>>>>> Agile is actually a cover story about the wider act of bringing
>>>>> culture change (a new and unfamiliar game) to an enterprise situation (the
>>>>> old story we all want to cling to). The SPIRIT book pretty much spells out
>>>>> the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've learned that there are actually more ways to fail with Open Space
>>>>> in Agile adoptions than there are ways to succeed. There are many ways to
>>>>> stumble when trying this. I'll be enumerating some of these subtle
>>>>> Agile-related pitfalls and traps in the Paris keynote on Tuesday, and in
>>>>> upcoming blog posts. Simply holding one or more canonical Open Space
>>>>> meetings (with full pre-planning and post processing) is not enough to
>>>>> neutralize the forces that oppose healthy and well Agile adoptions. The
>>>>> game mechanics, storytelling and passage-rite-structure elements must be
>>>>> present and robust for Open Space to be an effective tool in Agile
>>>>> adoptions. Open Space and these elements are composed in harmony with each
>>>>> other in the Open Agile Adoption technique.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you offer training in Open Space for Facilitators and/or Sponsors,
>>>>> I invite you to send me your links and I will make sure they are added to
>>>>> the list of resources I am beginning to compile at
>>>>> OpenAgileAdoption.com. I plan to list in the Paris slides some
>>>>> specific French-language OST course offerings from French-speaking
>>>>> instructors located in Europe, and Quebec.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>>> Dan****
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> ****
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel Mezick, President****
>>>>>
>>>>> New Technology Solutions Inc.****
>>>>>
>>>>> (203) 915 7248 (cell)****
>>>>>
>>>>> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog<http://newtechusa.net/blog/>.
>>>>> Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>. ****
>>>>>
>>>>> Examine my new book:  The Culture Game
>>>>> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the
>>>>> Agile Manager.****
>>>>>
>>>>> Explore Agile Team Training<http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/>and
>>>>> Coaching. <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>****
>>>>>
>>>>> Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net/user-groups/ma/>
>>>>> Community. ****
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Harold Shinsato
>>>>> harold at shinsato.com
>>>>> http://shinsato.com
>>>>> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Herman
>> MichaelHerman.com
>> (312) 280-7838
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
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