[OSList] Open Space with Agile: Failure patterns
Arno Baltin
arno at tlu.ee
Mon Sep 30 02:44:01 PDT 2013
:)
A
* *
2013/9/30 Suzanne Daigle <sdaigle4 at gmail.com>
> Thank you Arno. I had missed Michael Herman's two posts and so glad I got
> to sink in them now on this day in Serbia with Jasmina Nikolic, a short
> vacation but also working and breathing in Open Space together in work and
> play. Thank you also Michael... again for these insights.
>
> Suzanne
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 9:09 AM, Arno Baltin <arno at tlu.ee> wrote:
>
>> Thank you, Michael!
>> It helps, when I know the origin of the saying.
>>
>> Be well,
>>
>> Arno
>>
>>
>>
>> * *
>>
>>
>> 2013/9/28 Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>
>>
>>> I learned this phrase in the context of meditation, Arno. I've heard
>>> meditation teachers say about meditation practice that if we just "do the
>>> practice" we'll get the results… usually this is in contrast to simply
>>> talking about the practice or listening to teachings. This is akin to
>>> saying "anyone with a good head and good heart can do open space…" anyone
>>> who does the practice can get the same results that os
>>> teachers/practitioners, from harrison onward, have gotten. Does this help?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 27, 2013, Arno Baltin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi!
>>>>
>>>> I like this conversation about what OS is. And this practice notion is
>>>> a bit complicated. I as non Enlgish speaker I looked for the meanings of
>>>> the word and got confused. Could you Michael say it in other words what you
>>>> mean that OS is practice (first of all). Especially when I read "do the
>>>> practice" I cant understand the meaning.
>>>>
>>>> Be well,
>>>>
>>>> Arno
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2013/9/25 Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>
>>>>
>>>>> When I hear folks simplifying open space into a tool or technique, my
>>>>> usual response is to point out that circle is a tool, bulletin board is a
>>>>> tool, etc. Open Space is a *practice*, incorporating a number of
>>>>> these different tools. And hopefully, my use of them together is getting
>>>>> more and more skillful over time. To me, "practice" includes the
>>>>> suggestion that we do it once, as best we can, and then we try again, and
>>>>> again, learning and refining as we go.
>>>>>
>>>>> My felt sense of this is a little different from "values and
>>>>> principles" though I don't think calling OS or agile or scrum that is
>>>>> incorrect. For me the difference is that I hold values and principles, but
>>>>> practice is something that *holds me*.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also like to suggest that open space is a robust practice, a
>>>>> sufficient practice. Everything that's needed is there in the basic story
>>>>> and mechanisms. We don't need to do anything more, add in different
>>>>> things. Just do the practice and we get the experience, get the learning,
>>>>> the performance, the self-organizing, the breathing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your story, Harold.
>>>>>
>>>>> M
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Michael Herman
>>>>> Michael Herman Associates
>>>>> 312-280-7838 (mobile)
>>>>>
>>>>> http://MichaelHerman.com
>>>>> http://OpenSpaceWorld.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Peggy Holman <peggy at peggyholman.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Harold,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for bringing your knowledgable and eloquent perspective.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great to see these two communities working through an understanding
>>>>>> of each other. With you and others as translators, I think Agile is in
>>>>>> good hands.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peggy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________
>>>>>> Peggy Holman
>>>>>> Journalism that Matters
>>>>>> 15347 SE 49th Place
>>>>>> Bellevue, WA 98006
>>>>>> 425-746-6274
>>>>>> www.journalismthatmatters.org
>>>>>> www.peggyholman.com
>>>>>> Twitter: @peggyholman
>>>>>> JTM Twitter: @JTMStream
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Enjoy the award winning* Engaging Emergence: Turning Upheaval into
>>>>>> Opportunity <http://peggyholman.com/papers/engaging-emergence/>
>>>>>> Check out my series on what's emerging in the news & information
>>>>>> ecosystem<http://www.journalismthatmatters.net/the_emerging_news_and_information_eco_system>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 23, 2013, at 7:53 AM, Harold Shinsato <harold at SHINSATO.COM>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Harrison,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> About your statement "Open Space is a terrible way to introduce some
>>>>>> new process, and especially to assure 'buy in'".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You're clearing going directly against the heart of what Dan is
>>>>>> trying to promote. Maybe I invite disaster for myself by speaking an
>>>>>> alternative view from what you are saying given your founding status of
>>>>>> this community - but perhaps given my 12+ years working in the Agile space
>>>>>> - I have something worthwhile to say.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Harrison, you've been opposed to calling "Open Space" a tool. And I
>>>>>> hear Lisa Heft (the best Open Space trainer) talking about it being a tool
>>>>>> all the time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with both of you. Open Space is most emphatically *not* a
>>>>>> tool at it's heart. It's a set of values and principles. But it is also
>>>>>> definitely a tool. Or as Dan says, a 'game'. A beautifully designed game.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agile is most DEFINITELY not a process. It's a set of values and
>>>>>> principles. You can see this in the Agile Manifesto<http://agilemanifesto.org/>- especially the first item, we value Individuals and Interactions *over*
>>>>>> Processes and Tools. Yes, the Agile community applies many very specific
>>>>>> tools and processes. And very heated debates happen around the application
>>>>>> (or misapplication) of those tools and processes, such as Scrum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But oddly - even Scrum isn't *Really* a tool or a process. At the
>>>>>> heart of Scrum is also a set of principles and values. If you want to get a
>>>>>> sense of this - go to the end of the first book on Scrum, by Schwaber &
>>>>>> Beedle "Agile Software Development with Scrum" - where it lists the 5
>>>>>> values of Scrum - Commitment, Focus, Openness, Respect & Courage. Or read
>>>>>> Tobias Meyer's "The People's Scrum". Very powerful assertion and meditation
>>>>>> on the core values and how to apply the processes to get
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Open Space has already been used with great success to introduce,
>>>>>> promote and sustain Agile in the world through many uses of Open Space in
>>>>>> conferences such as the AgileOpen, Coaching Camps, and Open Agile Adoption
>>>>>> such as what Dan Mezick is explaining. From my vantage point, Open Space is
>>>>>> critical for helping the values and principles to be successfully absorbed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From my vantage point - Open Space Technology's values and principles
>>>>>> are eternal and aren't going away. The Universe won't suddenly stop
>>>>>> self-organizing. If anything, we'll only get better at understanding and
>>>>>> dancing with Order and Chaos. This dance, with the help of Open Space
>>>>>> Technology the Game (or Tool) has changed my life and infused it with
>>>>>> spirit. I'm eternally grateful to you, Harrison, to Lisa Heft, and to and
>>>>>> this community. And maybe Open Space Technology the game or tool will pass
>>>>>> away. The same goes for Agile values and principles. They're eternal.
>>>>>> They're not going away. The Process will never be more important than the
>>>>>> Individuals. The People are always more important than the Game.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BUT - there are powerful forces behind trying to adopt agile as
>>>>>> merely a tool or a process, because it's easier to understand. And that
>>>>>> invites failure - and it's the exact kind of failure you're writing about,
>>>>>> Harrison, about how our creations are "inevitably clunky." To succeed, any
>>>>>> implementation of Agile or Scrum needs to be able to self-organize -
>>>>>> "Inspect and Adapt" is one of the anthems of the agile and scrum
>>>>>> communities. I hope that the Open Space community will step up and help the
>>>>>> Agile community to do that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Harold
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/22/13 10:45 AM, Harrison Owen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dan wrote: “I've learned that there are actually more ways to fail
>>>>>> with Open Space in Agile adoptions than there are ways to succeed. There
>>>>>> are many ways to stumble when trying this.”****
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, Dan – I am not at all surprised. I learned a long time ago
>>>>>> that Open Space is a terrible way to introduce some new process, and
>>>>>> especially to assure “buy in.” Typically, problems arise because folks take
>>>>>> Open Space seriously. Instead of buying into the proposed process, they
>>>>>> begin to invent their own! Somewhere I wrote that OS was a great way to
>>>>>> design a new accounting system, but a horrible way to “implement” it.
>>>>>> ****
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And just to be contrarian... I wonder whether the failure is a
>>>>>> function of Open Space or Agile (and/or the SCRUM flavor of Agile)? As I
>>>>>> think we have come to understand, Open Space is a total scam if people
>>>>>> mistake it for some process we invented or “do.” It is simply an invitation
>>>>>> to be what we always have been – self organizing. The process itself (SO)
>>>>>> has been around for some time, and apparently has done quite well, witness
>>>>>> the fact that we, along with all the rest of the Cosmos are here and
>>>>>> seemingly functional. In a “face off” between a well functioning
>>>>>> self-organizing system and any process we might have designed to create the
>>>>>> system, install the system, or enhance the system – the designed process
>>>>>> doesn’t have a chance. The reason is simple. No matter how wise, careful,
>>>>>> diligent or skillful we may be – our creation is inevitably clunky. We may
>>>>>> get the big blocks right, even some of the finer points, but at the end of
>>>>>> the day we always miss the nuances – and as always, the devil is in the
>>>>>> details. Put somewhat differently, our designed processes are always
>>>>>> “averages” of what we think the process should look like. And “averages” do
>>>>>> not exist anywhere in nature. To push an “average” on a natural system is
>>>>>> always to make it function at some sub-optimal level, and usually to kill
>>>>>> it.****
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So maybe the order of precedence should go the other way? Use Agile
>>>>>> to introduce Open Space, and then abolish Agile. Or, if you like ...
>>>>>> Self-Organization is the natural agility. It doesn’t get any better than
>>>>>> that. Or something****
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Harrison****
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ****
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Harrison Owen****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 7808 River Falls Dr.****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Potomac, MD 20854****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> USA****
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Camden, Maine 04843****
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phone 301-365-2093****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (summer) 207-763-3261****
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.openspaceworld.com ****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
>>>>>> OSLIST Go to:
>>>>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org*
>>>>>> ***
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From:* oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [
>>>>>> mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] *On Behalf Of *Daniel
>>>>>> Mezick
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 19, 2013 11:26 AM
>>>>>> *To:* oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
>>>>>> *Subject:* [OSList] Open Space with Agile: Failure patterns****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ** **
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings to you,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In Paris this week at the Global Scrum Gathering I plan to issue
>>>>>> certain warning about specific failure patterns I have experienced when
>>>>>> working with Open Space inside Agile adoptions. I can tell you right now
>>>>>> that Open Space by itself is not a panacea for the complex problems
>>>>>> associated with Agile adoption.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agile is actually a cover story about the wider act of bringing
>>>>>> culture change (a new and unfamiliar game) to an enterprise situation (the
>>>>>> old story we all want to cling to). The SPIRIT book pretty much spells out
>>>>>> the problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've learned that there are actually more ways to fail with Open
>>>>>> Space in Agile adoptions than there are ways to succeed. There are many
>>>>>> ways to stumble when trying this. I'll be enumerating some of these subtle
>>>>>> Agile-related pitfalls and traps in the Paris keynote on Tuesday, and in
>>>>>> upcoming blog posts. Simply holding one or more canonical Open Space
>>>>>> meetings (with full pre-planning and post processing) is not enough to
>>>>>> neutralize the forces that oppose healthy and well Agile adoptions. The
>>>>>> game mechanics, storytelling and passage-rite-structure elements must be
>>>>>> present and robust for Open Space to be an effective tool in Agile
>>>>>> adoptions. Open Space and these elements are composed in harmony with each
>>>>>> other in the Open Agile Adoption technique.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you offer training in Open Space for Facilitators and/or Sponsors,
>>>>>> I invite you to send me your links and I will make sure they are added to
>>>>>> the list of resources I am beginning to compile at
>>>>>> OpenAgileAdoption.com. I plan to list in the Paris slides some
>>>>>> specific French-language OST course offerings from French-speaking
>>>>>> instructors located in Europe, and Quebec.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kind Regards,
>>>>>> Dan****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Daniel Mezick, President****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New Technology Solutions Inc.****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (203) 915 7248 (cell)****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog<http://newtechusa.net/blog/>.
>>>>>> Twitter <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>. ****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Examine my new book: The Culture Game
>>>>>> <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools for the
>>>>>> Agile Manager.****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Explore Agile Team Training<http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/>and
>>>>>> Coaching. <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-coaching/>****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Explore the Agile Boston <http://newtechusa.net/user-groups/ma/>
>>>>>> Community. ****
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Harold Shinsato
>>>>>> harold at shinsato.com
>>>>>> http://shinsato.com
>>>>>> twitter: @hajush <http://twitter.com/hajush>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OSList mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Herman
>>> MichaelHerman.com
>>> (312) 280-7838
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
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>>
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>
>
> --
> Suzanne Daigle
> NuFocus Strategic Group
> 7159 Victoria Circle
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> s.daigle at nufocusgroup.com
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