[OSList] The OST Game
Daniel Mezick
dan at newtechusa.net
Mon Oct 21 15:23:09 PDT 2013
Yes, and not every goal seeker is a control freak. Some of us are quite
the opposite.
Consider the man who loves a certain woman, and waits for the current
trend of her interest in him to change. He is goal seeking without
controlling.
Likewise, trend-following market traders do not attempt to create,
control or make trends. They simply identify & ride them, while seeking
wealth.
In both cases, there is goal-seeking without a controlling spirit.
Dan
On 10/21/13 5:46 PM, paul levy wrote:
> Or maybe goal setting is just another gorgeous example of the mystery
> of self-organisation ?
>
> Those who cannot hear the music think that the dancer is mad...
>
> Warm wishes
> Paul Levy
>
> On Monday, 21 October 2013, Harrison Owen wrote:
>
> John I like what you say... and given the (only) two conclusions I
> have managed to reach after all these years: A) All systems are
> open. B) All systems are self organizing... the devil draws me to
> a third conclusion. Goal seeking systems are purely a figment of
> our imagination created in a desperate attempt to satisfy our
> unending (and futile) need for control. You know the scenario. We
> (I) created it, We (I) set the goals, We (I) control... Lovely
> idea, but it never happened and never will. Of course, that is all
> pure speculation and heresy.
>
> Harrison
>
> Harrison Owen
>
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> *From:*oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org <javascript:_e({},
> 'cvml', 'oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org');>
> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org <javascript:_e({},
> 'cvml', 'oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org');>] *On Behalf Of
> *John Watkins
> *Sent:* Monday, October 21, 2013 11:19 AM
> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] The OST Game
>
> I don't think self organizing systems are goal seeking systems.
> By definition, goal seeking systems are homeostatic, and not
> emergent or transformational. I think self organizing systems are
> purpose seeking systems; hence, as Peggy says, always looking for
> new meanings to emerge in a dialectic of emergence, but never
> settling into any one final "eternal return," like "strange
> attractors," always wobbling into new versions of themselves. I
> think the question of game vs. not game might be solved by saying
> emergent self organizing systems are systems at play, "lila" in
> the tantric view, "the play of the goddess," indeterminate,
> recursive, entangled, confounding traditional goal seeking or
> linear causal or probabilistic behavior.
>
> John
>
> On Oct 20, 2013, at 7:43 AM, Peggy Holman wrote:
>
>
>
> Great thread!
>
> To Paul's question
>
> what is the goal (if any) of self-organizing behavior?
>
> Harrison referenced one of Kauffman's conditions for
> self-organizing -- the search for fitness.
>
> I believe that in human systems, the search for fitness looks like
> a search for meaning.
>
> Harrison said:
>
> You don't have a self without a world, nor do you have a world
> without selves. It is not one OR the other, but definitely a
> both/and. Dialectic, polar, all at once. Nice I always thought.
>
>
>
> Nice thing about a search for meaning. It can start as a solo
> act. And you may pick up friends along the way. Sometimes that
> evolves into a movement (Agile, Open Space, etc.). And sometimes
> it even disappears into a world view.
>
>
>
> Or not.
>
>
> Peggy
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> 425-746-6274 <tel:425-746-6274>
>
> www.peggyholman.com <http://www.peggyholman.com/>
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:59 AM, "Harrison Owen" <hhowen at verizon.net
> <mailto:hhowen at verizon.net>> wrote:
>
> Dan said: : "what is the goal (if any) of self-organizing
> behavior?" Good question indeed. Stuart Kaufmann (Biologist)
> says that one of the conditions for self organization is what
> he calls, "The search for fitness." I take this to be a
> modification of Darwin's "Survival of the fittest." The idea
> is that self organizing systems engage in a search for ways to
> enhance the way they fit with the environment and fit together
> internally. Those most fully aligned with the environment,
> with all their parts engaged tend to survive. Works for me.
>
> Harrison
>
> Harrison Owen<
>
>
>
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