[OSList] The OST Game

[paul levy]

Or maybe goal setting is just another gorgeous example of the mystery of
self-organisation ?

Those who cannot hear the music think that the dancer is mad...

Warm wishes
Paul Levy

On Monday, 21 October 2013, Harrison Owen wrote:

> John I like what you say... and given the (only) two conclusions I have
> managed to reach after all these years: A) All systems are open. B) All
> systems are self organizing... the devil draws me to a third conclusion.
> Goal seeking systems are purely a figment of our imagination created in a
> desperate attempt to satisfy our unending (and futile) need for control.
> You know the scenario. We (I) created it, We (I) set the goals, We (I)
> control... Lovely idea, but it never happened and never will. Of course,
> that is all pure speculation and heresy.****
>
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> Harrison Owen****
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> *From:* oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> 'oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org');> [mailto:
> oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> 'oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org');>] *On Behalf Of *John Watkins
> *Sent:* Monday, October 21, 2013 11:19 AM
> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] The OST Game****
>
> ** **
>
> I don't think self organizing systems are goal seeking systems.  By
> definition, goal seeking systems are homeostatic, and not emergent or
> transformational.  I think self organizing systems are purpose seeking
> systems; hence, as Peggy says, always looking for new meanings to emerge in
> a dialectic of emergence, but never settling into any one final "eternal
> return," like "strange attractors," always wobbling into new versions of
> themselves.  I think the question of game vs. not game might be solved by
> saying emergent self organizing systems are systems at play, "lila" in the
> tantric view, "the play of the goddess," indeterminate, recursive,
> entangled, confounding traditional goal seeking or linear causal or
> probabilistic behavior.****
>
> ** **
>
> John****
>
> ** **
>
> On Oct 20, 2013, at 7:43 AM, Peggy Holman wrote:****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> Great thread!****
>
> ** **
>
> To Paul's question****
>
> what is the goal (if any) of self-organizing behavior?****
>
> Harrison referenced one of Kauffman's conditions for self-organizing --
> the search for fitness.****
>
> ** **
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> I believe that in human systems, the search for fitness looks like a
> search for meaning. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Harrison said:****
>
> You don’t have a self without a world, nor do you have a world without
> selves. It is not one OR the other, but definitely a both/and. Dialectic,
> polar, all at once. Nice I always thought.****
>
>  ****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> Nice thing about a search for meaning.  It can start as a solo act.  And
> you may pick up friends along the way.  Sometimes that evolves into a
> movement (Agile, Open Space, etc.). And sometimes it even disappears into a
> world view. ****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> Or not.****
>
>
> Peggy****
>
> Sent from my iPad****
>
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> 425-746-6274****
>
> www.peggyholman.com****
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:59 AM, "Harrison Owen" <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:**
> **
>
> Dan said: : “what is the goal (if any) of self-organizing behavior?” Good
> question indeed. Stuart Kaufmann (Biologist) says that one of the
> conditions for self organization is what he calls, “The search for
> fitness.” I take this to be a modification of Darwin’s “Survival of the
> fittest.” The idea is that self organizing systems engage in a search for
> ways to enhance the way they fit with the environment and fit together
> internally. Those most fully aligned with the environment, with all their
> parts engaged tend to survive. Works for me.****
>
>  ****
>
> Harrison****
>
> Harrison Owen**<
>
>
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