[OSList] The five principles in Welsh?

[Phelim McDermott]

Hi Jon and Lisa

it already happened! We got someone there to translate them. However in the event we were told they didn't really capture the essence of the meaning. 

That the translations of those subtleties would also be different depending on whether you came from the north or the south. 

So we will have a new set for  Cardiff sent by our hosts in Bangor. 

Will keep you informed 

Best regards,

Phelim McDermott
-----------------------------
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Sent from my iPhone

On 10 Jul 2012, at 08:45, Jon Harvey <jon at jonharveyassociates.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi Lisa
>  
> I know what you mean – even before the advent of online translation I remember a school friend of mine seeking a French translation of ‘I love you’ – and he came up with ‘Je zéro toi’ overlooking that he had taken the ‘love’ from a tennis meaning…
>  
> I do think that linguistically, Welsh is perhaps a more straightforward language than Spanish and less subject to colloquial transformations – due to the fact that Spanish is spoken by many more people. On this basis, I think it is more likely that Google translate would have come up with a reasonable pro-tem solution – given that Kirsty’s workshop is just 4 days away!
>  
> But naturally, if Kirsty can find a Welsh speaker who can grasp the vibrancy of the 5 guidelines etc in time – that would be far more preferable option. I would ask my Welsh speaking Mum but other factors mean that would not work at present.
>  
> But good luck Kirsty!
>  
> Atb
>  
> Jon
>  
> From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Lisa Heft
> Sent: 10 July 2012 06:40
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
> Subject: Re: [OSList] The five principles in Welsh?
>  
> Hi, Jon, Kirsty and others - 
>  
> My experience with the online translation software - for example in Spanish - is that I have to go in there (if I am using something like Google Translate) to select / correct / substitute words that may in fact be choices for literal translations of words but are not correct or fluid for communication.
>  
> For example I had a hilarious translation that translated something I was saying about the fact that I was going to fly into an airport (in an airplane) with the word 'fly' (the insect).
>  
> I have also have the experience of - even with someone who is fluent in a language - if they do not have the depth and breadth of an expansive vocabulary, they do not have the words to capture the nuance and meaning of everything they are translating. They translate something literally. Which does not translate something culturally or regionally.
>  
> So when I have looked for translations - I have sought out someone who is very expressive and nuanced in their own home language - and we sit together and talk about what these principles and law phrases really truly mean, in the context of Open Space. And in the course of the conversation not only are they asking and offering things that we can explore and clarify together for the best choice of words - but they also become a passionate ambassador for the Open Space event itself. And together we learn so much about culture, context and communication.
>  
> I always say this - and in fact I have had this experience: If you cannot find a professional translator or a person with an extensive vocabulary in their home language (and ability to understand yours for that conversation) - find.... a poet. Because their job is to swim around in language and select words - not always the obvious words - for rich and complex meaning-making.
>  
> Friends - what are your other experiences, especially if different than mine?
>  
> Lisa
>  
>  
> On Jul 9, 2012, at 5:35 AM, Jon Harvey wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Kisty
>  
> Google translate says:
>  
> Pwy bynnag ddaw yn y bobl iawn
> Beth bynnag fydd yn digwydd yw'r unig beth a allai gael
> Lle bynnag y mae'n digwydd yn y lle iawn
> Pryd bynnag y bydd yn dechrau yn yr adeg iawn
> Pan mae'n dros mae'n dros
>  
> Mae cyfraith dwy droedfedd / gyfraith symudedd
> Byddwch yn barod i gael ei synnu
>  
> Given that Welsh is a pretty formulaic language (unlike English) – there is a good chance this translation is reasonable.
>  
> Hope this helps
>  
> atb
>  
> Jon
>  
> From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Kirsty Lothian
> Sent: 05 July 2012 16:38
> To: oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
> Subject: [OSList] The five principles in Welsh?
>  
> Hello OS List,
>  
> I think this is actually my first post, although I have been reading for few years now! I am working with Improbable and Phelim McDermott on the Devoted and Disgruntled open space Roadshow which we are on this summer. On Saturday we will be doing our very first OS bilingual in Welsh and English. So... Does anyone know the principles and laws in Welsh?
>  
> We are after the full complement:
>  
> Whoever comes are the right people
> Whatever happens is the only thing that could have
> Wherever it happens is the right place
> Whenever it starts is the right time
> When it's over it's over
>  
> The law of two feet/ law of mobility
> Be prepared to be surprised
>  
> Many thanks for any help you can offer,
> Thanks,
>  
> Kirsty
>  
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