Youth Leaders

Sun Oct 10 07:58:34 PDT 2010

Thanks you Pat, for this clear articulation.  It feels just right to  
me and links directly to my belief that my major role as a parent is  
to be the guardian of my child's enthusiasm.

I'm realizing that I also consider this one of my main roles as an  
art teacher.

Denise
On Oct 9, 2010, at 12:08 PM, Pat Black wrote:

> Hello Tree
> I have never agreed and disagreed more strongly with the same  
> thought before.  It took me some time to sit with your ideas as I  
> unpacked my own reaction to your statements.  I do not believe I  
> misunderstand your beliefs about how you think childhoods should be  
> protected and sheltered and I don't disagree with you in theory.   
> They should be protected and sheltered. There is no going back to  
> stolen childhoods and childhood can be stolen. I do think  
> childhoods can be stolen  under the guise of protection and shelter.
>    I do think there are developmental stages and that it's  
> important for us to go through all those stages as we grow because  
> we will use those stages as scaffolding as we become ourselves.   
> Having said that I also believe that we all come to be with a  
> different set of tools and brilliant abilities.  Those unique  
> qualities of self allow us to move through different developmental  
> stages with different abilities and different times.  Here is where  
> I take exception with what you are proposing and Waldorf for that  
> matter.  Each brings our own time to the equation.  Some are ready  
> to take on experiences interacting with adults and their world in  
> very competent ways at very young ages.  In fact, they need to have  
> those experiences to find the self they came to be.  I know for  
> myself I was already organizing anti-war events by the time I was  
> 11.  No one expected, pushed or even encouraged me to this.  I felt  
> compelled by what I saw in the world and a deep need to change it.   
> I am grateful that as difficult as it was for my parents to allow  
> me to do these things because they kept me on the path to myself.   
> My daughter was crying about flowers picked that didn't want to be  
> picked by the time she was 2, raising money for pre-schools in  
> Central America by the time she was 7 and comfortably reading  
> essays she wrote to political demonstration with crowds of 50,000  
> people by the time she was 11.  My son on the other hand is 22 and  
> still not ready to navigate the world as an adult.  He needs more  
> time.  The issue for me is not whether I think a young person  
> should participate in certain venues normally occupied by adults.   
> The issue is where the children are driven to go.  What do the  
> children think?  Are they there because their own heart has passion  
> and commitment or are they there because someone else thinks that  
> is where they should be?  Childhood should be protected and  
> sheltered.  I agree with that.  I also think it needs to be driven  
> by the child's passion and commitment not the adults sense of what  
> is appropriate for a child.  I am thinking about the recent hoopla  
> about the 16 year old girl who wanted to sail around the world and  
> all the talk about child abuse.  There was a time when she was out  
> of radio contact and all the world was a twitter about what  
> happened to her because the loss of contact came after a bad storm  
> in the Pacific where she was.  After some days they found the boat  
> and team rescued her.  Her mast broke in the storm and with that  
> her satellite communications were down.  The questioners went on  
> and on to her about her safety and whether she was alright and  
> whether she should be out in a boat sailing by herself and her  
> reply was "It was just a storm".  This child can only become  
> herself through the sea and if you deny her the sea you deny her  
> herself.
> I am just saying it is for the child to chose the direction and the  
> speed and the adults to do what they can to facility the possibility.
> Pat Black
>
> On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 8:11 AM, Tree Fitzpatrick  
> <therese.fitzpatrick at gmail.com> wrote:
> Michael, and other comments. .. I don't think anyone commenting  
> actually understood what I tried to say so I conclude that I failed  
> to communicate.
>
> Young humans are not yet fully evolved humans. What all young  
> people need, including the most precocious of them, including ones  
> that get asked to sit on the board of the Jane Goodall Institute,  
> is to be children.  It is only by being children than humans can  
> become fully realized adults.
>
> The world needs fully realized adults to achieve our shared,  
> highest destiny. When we push children out of childhood and into  
> the adult realm, those people rarely, if ever, get space later in  
> life to go back and fill in the gaps of what was missing.
>
> Michael, yes, indeed, children can bring a lovely element to any  
> open space. . . but that does not mean that it is right.  Children  
> should not be asked to participate in adult matters.  Ever.
>
> The damage contemporary society does to childhood is a very  
> serious, long-term consequence to humanity. If we do not keep  
> children asleep in childhood so they might do the inner work of  
> their inner beings, we will have a human future full of unrealized  
> 'grown ups'.  It is casual, nonsensical folly to bring children --  
> unformed adults -- into adult discussions. It is wrong on a  
> gagillion levels.
>
> We are all so caught up in rushing towards the future. One thing we  
> humans cannot 'rush' is the slow development and incubation of  
> fully realized human beings:  that development takes place in  
> childhood. It is irrationally folly to bring children into adult  
> decisions.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 8, 2010 at 3:06 AM, Michael M Pannwitz  
> <mmpanne at boscop.org> wrote:
> Dear Tree,
> from where I sit (public) decision making as presently practiced,  
> for instance in Germany, is ineffective, creates larger problems,  
> is lobby-infested, dogmatic, expensive, not even a good show... who  
> would want to be part of that?
> What I have experienced often in "formal" open space events and in  
> the "normal" open space of everyday life (like the 1,5 year old  
> daughter of a neighbor visiting and taking over our household, very  
> effectively involving us in her life and experiments, curious,  
> decisions?-easy for her....pure joy)is that kids of all ages thrive  
> in it.
> But then, thats not decision making in the sense of sitting on a  
> "board" of whatsoever.
> Day-care children, grade school kids, highschool kids, teenagers...  
> are the greatest gift to an open space event, so I encourage their  
> taking part and it seems to always have been productive, fun,  
> healthy...
>
> Have a great day
> Greetings from Berlin
> mmp
>
> Tree Fitzpatrick schrieb:
> There are many things off kilter in human culture. One thing that I  
> think is
> off kilter is that adult humans now routinely encourage non-adult  
> humans to
> participate in things like 'public decision making'.  Where did we  
> get the
> assumption that a young person has the capacity of a fully evolved  
> adult
> human to make informed decisions that might have long term  
> consequences on
> the child, other children, the community, the culture, etc?  
> Children are not
> yet adult.
>
> We encourage children to 'awaken' to adulthood far too early.
>
> I am appalled that many now take it for granted that children (a  
> non-adult
> is still a child) should sit on something like the Board of  
> Directors of
> something like the Jane Goddall Institute (whatever that is, I imagine
> Ashley meant Jane Goddall).
>
> This is a major flaw, I think, in evolving culture and it has  
> endlessly
> complex repercussions.
>
> Children's job is to be children, to developo their own personhood  
> fully so
> that they will one day take a place in adult community. Children  
> awaken to
> adult considerations much too early. TElevision has been a huge  
> culprit in
> this regard and now, of course, the internet.
>
> A child's main work is being a child. It's just not right to  
> cavalierly get
> youth input into decisioins that children cannot, just cannot,  
> really know.
> A twelve year old, a sixteen year old, is not mature enough to make  
> complex
> public decisions and it is wrong to ask them to:  asking children to
> participate in grown up life as peers with the adults dishonors  
> children
>
> I get my main attitudes about children from having sent my child to a
> Waldorf School and having been a student of Rudolf STeiner for over  
> twenty
> years. Much of what is wrong with human culture can be traced to the
> practice of stunting youthful inner development under the guise of  
> awakening
> children too early to adult concerns. This is why we now have an  
> education
> system in USA that is focussed on test scores instead of the inner
> development of children. There is a story in today's NYTImes about how
> publishers are publishing less picture books and how parents  
> pressure four
> years olds to listen to long stories and skip picture books so they  
> will
> have better test scores later. . . this dynamic is connected to  
> including
> youth in public decisinmaking.
>
> I know this is a very popular trend and I know Ashely Cooper is deeply
> invested in the world and I know she is a good caring person intent on
> making positive contributions in the world.
>
> I get to have my opinion, yes?  I am worried about the millions of  
> humans
> who are children today who are not cloud-gazing and spending their  
> summers
> hunting rocks and birds' nests and who are told, when they are  
> twelve, that
> they can contribute to public decisions. Grown up humans have a  
> duty to
> children:  to let them be children. Otherwise what we are creating  
> is an
> army of humans who are not fully developed humans who will make  
> good wage
> slaves for the elite billionaires running the tea part movement.  
> Thinking
> caring loving people should not participate in pushing children  
> into the
> adult arena while children.
>
> On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 6:51 PM, ashley cooper
> <mail.easilyamazed at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> Hello Open Space friends,
>
> I have fallen off of the OSlist for awhile, but I wanted to share  
> with you
> a talk from a recent TEDx event that I hosted,  
> TEDxNextGenerationAsheville<http:// 
> www.tedxnextgenerationasheville.com/>.
>
> This event was all about spotlighting the ideas of young people and  
> giving
> them a public stage from which to share and be heard. It was also an
> invitation for there to be more collaboration between youth and  
> adults.
> Chase Pickering spoke about the role of youth in leadership and how  
> young
> people can contribute to public decision-making and serve on Board of
> Directors (which he did with the Jane Goddall Institute). If you  
> are in a
> position to invite a youth to serve on your board of directors or  
> advisory
> board or encourage the clients you work with, please consider Chase's
> advice!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27IJpZVP1qs
>
> You can also watch Birke Baehr's talk about the food we eat. He is  
> an 11
> year old who is passionate about food and whose talk has gone viral  
> and been
> viewed over 200,000 times in less than 2 weeks.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Id9caYw-Y
>
> Sending fondest regards from Asheville, NC, USA,
> Ashley
>
> P.s. If you would like to respond to me personally, please send it to
> easilyamazed at gmail.com . I have not been checking this account  
> regularly.
> Thank you.
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>
> -- 
> Michael M Pannwitz, boscop eg
> Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany
> ++49-30-772 8000
> mmpanne at boscop.org
> www.boscop.org
>
>
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>
> -- 
> Love rays,
> Tree Fitzpatrick  (check out my new address)
>
>
> . . . the great and incalculable grace of love, which says, with  
> Augustine, "I want you to be," without being able to give any  
> particular reason for such supreme and unsurpassable affirmation.   
> -- Hannah Arendt
>
> 2175 Kittredge St Apt 615
> Berkeley, CA 94704
> 510-665-4825
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