Christopher Alexander & the space we are shaping

Artur Silva arturfsilva at yahoo.com
Sat Sep 12 05:39:16 PDT 2009


When I click in Reply all (and not only Reply) it goes to the list.
 
Artur

--- On Sat, 9/12/09, douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com> wrote:


From: douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Christopher Alexander & the space we are shaping
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 4:34 AM


Hi Wendy and all--

Is there something I can do about this? Harrison, how did you resolve
it?

        :- Doug.

On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 20:21 -0700, Wendy Farmer-O'Neil wrote:
> Hi Doug,
> 
> Just wanted to give you the heads up that when we click reply to you,  
> it goes just to your account, not to the list.  Same problem Harrison  
> had a while back.  So we are missing chunks of the conversation.
> 
> :) Wendy
> 
> On 11-Sep-09, at 6:38 PM, douglas germann wrote:
> 
> > Thanks, Becky!
> >
> >             :- Doug.
> >
> > On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 22:10 +0100, Becky Bloom wrote:
> >> re: Christopher Alexander.
> >>
> >> Congratulations!
> >>
> >> -b.
> >>
> >> 2009/9/9 douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
> >>        Becky--
> >>
> >>        Many thanks.
> >>
> >>        Yes, I read A Pattern Language probably 10 or 15 years ago.
> >>        The set I am
> >>        reading now, The Nature of Order, was written 25 to 30 years
> >>        later (up
> >>        to at least 2002), and offers where Alexander's thought had
> >>        progressed
> >>        from there. He makes many references to the Eishin campus in
> >>        these
> >>        books. I am glad to see more photos of it on that Web page you
> >>        linked.
> >>        Too bad that the final version of the pattern language is not
> >>        available.
> >>        I like reading his kind of poetry!
> >>
> >>        One of the things he distinguishes is a "pattern language"
> >>        from a "form
> >>        language," and I wonder if what you are referring to in your
> >>        x, y, z
> >>        wording might be a form language?
> >>
> >>        I guess I am not sure what a mental rule is, and what examples
> >>        you might
> >>        give of mental rules.
> >>
> >>        Thanks, Becky!
> >>
> >>                               :- Doug.
> >>
> >>
> >>        On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 17:28 +0100, Becky Bloom wrote:
> >>> Doug,
> >>>
> >>> What really matters are the mental rules that determine 'the
> >>        DNA' (the
> >>> enfolded order*) of each physical space, that *would* have
> >>        an
> >>> enhancing effect on 'Opening Space' for instance --not a/the
> >>        exact
> >>> predetermined geometry/form of space itself. < Apropos you
> >>        may want to
> >>> read A Pattern Language at some point, also by Chris
> >>        Alexander (at
> >>> al.) >
> >>>
> >>> The same mental rules could generate shapes of different
> >>        forms as in
> >>> each case, order does not unfold in void -- its unfolding is
> >>        affected
> >>> by 'local' conditions (geography, culture etc).
> >>>
> >>> Along the same lines, the enfolded order of each Open Space
> >>        event as
> >>> it unflods --differently every time -- affects the existing
> >>        structure
> >>> of a space shaped in a x, y, z way. Then site, space,
> >>        participants and
> >>> ideas end up forming a coherent meaningful 'whole'. But this
> >>        'whole'
> >>> would have different physical properties and outcome even if
> >>        OS events
> >>> are repeated in the same room and under the same conditions.
> >>>
> >>> You may also want to read how the design (site and
> >>        buildings) of the
> >>> Eishin School (Japan) affected the knowledge management and
> >>        the
> >>> academic performance in that specific student community. You
> >>        will be
> >>> able to find some analogies with OS (Unfortunately I
> >>         haven't got any
> >>> links of relevent lit.)
> >>>
> >>> Enjoy your reads.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -b.
> >>>
> >>> * See David Bohm
> >>>
> >>> 2009/9/8 douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
> >>>        Artur--
> >>>
> >>>        Thank you for helping me think this through.
> >>>
> >>>        I have been reading further in Christopher Alexander
> >>        and find
> >>>        myself in
> >>>        a chapter where he speaks of the mass and the space
> >>        of a
> >>>        building as
> >>>        interlocking. This gives me a new light, I think, on
> >>        my
> >>>        question and on
> >>>        your response.
> >>>
> >>>        What the question asks is subtle but for all that
> >>        very real.
> >>>        We are
> >>>        shaping some space and the circle, the wall, the
> >>        law, the
> >>>        diversity are
> >>>        the things with which we shape that space: they are
> >>        the form,
> >>>        the mass.
> >>>        But I want to look at the space itself: what is its
> >>        shape?
> >>>
> >>>        This takes a change in perspective, much like an
> >>        artist
> >>>        looking at the
> >>>        negative space that surrounds a maple leaf. We know
> >>        the shape
> >>>        of the
> >>>        circle and the breathing in and breathing out from
> >>        small to
> >>>        large
> >>>        groups; what shape is that which meets this shape?
> >>>
> >>>        Here we are probably left to using word pictures,
> >>        stories and
> >>>        the like.
> >>>        I remember someone once using "banter" to describe
> >>        one
> >>>        characteristic of
> >>>        the space we are shaping. What is the shape of the
> >>        space we
> >>>        are
> >>>        touching?
> >>>
> >>>                               :- Doug.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>        On Sun, 2009-09-06 at 11:22 -0700, Artur Silva
> >>        wrote:
> >>>> Hi, Doug:
> >>>>
> >>>> In my opinion, what gives shape to the space are
> >>        what I call
> >>>        the
> >>>> foundations of OST: the circle, the invitation,
> >>        diversity,
> >>>        the Law,
> >>>> etc. In fact, we build the garden.
> >>>>
> >>>> The "thing" that the organization or community
> >>        desires to
> >>>        create is
> >>>> the content, or the building. That is made
> >>        possible by the
> >>>        OST design
> >>>> and foundations we have created - the garden, as
> >>        you said.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>>
> >>>> Artur
> >>>>
> >>>> PS: For more about OST "foundations" make a search
> >>        in the
> >>>        OSLIST
> >>>> Archives.
> >>>> --------------
> >>>>
> >>>> --- On Sun, 9/6/09, douglas germann
> >>>        <76066.515 at compuserve.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>        From: douglas germann
> >>        <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
> >>>>        Subject: [OSLIST] Christopher Alexander &
> >>        the space
> >>>        we are
> >>>>        shaping
> >>>>        To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> >>>>        Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:20 AM
> >>>>
> >>>>        Hi--
> >>>>
> >>>>        Still reading Christopher Alexander and
> >>        finding lots
> >>>        of
> >>>>        parallels to OS:
> >>>>
> >>>>                Most important of all, it was the
> >>        space
> >>>        (more than the
> >>>>        building)
> >>>>                which was being formed. That flies
> >>        against
> >>>>        20th-century
> >>>>                awareness, which places too much
> >>        emphasis on
> >>>>        buildings. What
> >>>>                mattered about the building is the
> >>>        contribution it
> >>>>        makes to the
> >>>>                formation of shaped, coherent,
> >>        public space.
> >>>        That was
> >>>>        where the
> >>>>                inspiration came from, and it was
> >>        that—later
> >>>        —which
> >>>>        made it
> >>>>                possible to make the building
> >>        beautiful.
> >>>        Christopher
> >>>>        Alexander,
> >>>>                The Nature of Order: An Essay on
> >>        the Art of
> >>>        Building
> >>>>        and The
> >>>>                Nature of the Universe, Book
> >>        Three: A Vision
> >>>        of a
> >>>>        Living World,
> >>>>                p 138
> >>>>
> >>>>        In another instance, he says that in
> >>        designing a
> >>>        home, it is
> >>>>        best to
> >>>>        design the garden first: when that is
> >>        placed in the
> >>>        most
> >>>>        health-giving,
> >>>>        nurturing spot, then the house is made
> >>        that much
> >>>        better, that
> >>>>        much more
> >>>>        wonderful. Garden first!
> >>>>
> >>>>        The question this raises for me for OS is:
> >>        most
> >>>        often the
> >>>>        communities in
> >>>>        which we are opening space want to
> >>        accomplish some
> >>>        *thing*.
> >>>>        This thing
> >>>>        is Alexander's building. But he does not
> >>        look first
> >>>        at the
> >>>>        building;
> >>>>        rather he tries to shape public
> >>        space--give it
> >>>        volume, life.
> >>>>        What are we
> >>>>        trying to shape when we open space?
> >>>>
> >>>>        It is easy for me to throw in a glib "we
> >>        simply are
> >>>        there to
> >>>>        open
> >>>>        space," but I think the inquiry needs to
> >>        go deeper
> >>>        than that.
> >>>>        What is
> >>>>        the shape of opened space? What makes it
> >>        coherent?
> >>>        What are
> >>>>        the factors
> >>>>        which give it shape?
> >>>>
> >>>>                    :- Doug.
> >>>>
> >>>>        *
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> * *
> >>>
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> >
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> 
> Wendy Farmer-O'Neil
> CEO Prospera Consulting
> wendy at xe.net
> 1-800-713-2351
> 
> The moment of change is the only poem. -- Adrienne Rich
> 
> 
> 
> 

*
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