Christopher Alexander & the space we are shaping
Artur Silva
arturfsilva at yahoo.com
Sat Sep 12 05:39:16 PDT 2009
When I click in Reply all (and not only Reply) it goes to the list.
Artur
--- On Sat, 9/12/09, douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com> wrote:
From: douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Christopher Alexander & the space we are shaping
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 4:34 AM
Hi Wendy and all--
Is there something I can do about this? Harrison, how did you resolve
it?
:- Doug.
On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 20:21 -0700, Wendy Farmer-O'Neil wrote:
> Hi Doug,
>
> Just wanted to give you the heads up that when we click reply to you,
> it goes just to your account, not to the list. Same problem Harrison
> had a while back. So we are missing chunks of the conversation.
>
> :) Wendy
>
> On 11-Sep-09, at 6:38 PM, douglas germann wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Becky!
> >
> > :- Doug.
> >
> > On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 22:10 +0100, Becky Bloom wrote:
> >> re: Christopher Alexander.
> >>
> >> Congratulations!
> >>
> >> -b.
> >>
> >> 2009/9/9 douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
> >> Becky--
> >>
> >> Many thanks.
> >>
> >> Yes, I read A Pattern Language probably 10 or 15 years ago.
> >> The set I am
> >> reading now, The Nature of Order, was written 25 to 30 years
> >> later (up
> >> to at least 2002), and offers where Alexander's thought had
> >> progressed
> >> from there. He makes many references to the Eishin campus in
> >> these
> >> books. I am glad to see more photos of it on that Web page you
> >> linked.
> >> Too bad that the final version of the pattern language is not
> >> available.
> >> I like reading his kind of poetry!
> >>
> >> One of the things he distinguishes is a "pattern language"
> >> from a "form
> >> language," and I wonder if what you are referring to in your
> >> x, y, z
> >> wording might be a form language?
> >>
> >> I guess I am not sure what a mental rule is, and what examples
> >> you might
> >> give of mental rules.
> >>
> >> Thanks, Becky!
> >>
> >> :- Doug.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 17:28 +0100, Becky Bloom wrote:
> >>> Doug,
> >>>
> >>> What really matters are the mental rules that determine 'the
> >> DNA' (the
> >>> enfolded order*) of each physical space, that *would* have
> >> an
> >>> enhancing effect on 'Opening Space' for instance --not a/the
> >> exact
> >>> predetermined geometry/form of space itself. < Apropos you
> >> may want to
> >>> read A Pattern Language at some point, also by Chris
> >> Alexander (at
> >>> al.) >
> >>>
> >>> The same mental rules could generate shapes of different
> >> forms as in
> >>> each case, order does not unfold in void -- its unfolding is
> >> affected
> >>> by 'local' conditions (geography, culture etc).
> >>>
> >>> Along the same lines, the enfolded order of each Open Space
> >> event as
> >>> it unflods --differently every time -- affects the existing
> >> structure
> >>> of a space shaped in a x, y, z way. Then site, space,
> >> participants and
> >>> ideas end up forming a coherent meaningful 'whole'. But this
> >> 'whole'
> >>> would have different physical properties and outcome even if
> >> OS events
> >>> are repeated in the same room and under the same conditions.
> >>>
> >>> You may also want to read how the design (site and
> >> buildings) of the
> >>> Eishin School (Japan) affected the knowledge management and
> >> the
> >>> academic performance in that specific student community. You
> >> will be
> >>> able to find some analogies with OS (Unfortunately I
> >> haven't got any
> >>> links of relevent lit.)
> >>>
> >>> Enjoy your reads.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -b.
> >>>
> >>> * See David Bohm
> >>>
> >>> 2009/9/8 douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
> >>> Artur--
> >>>
> >>> Thank you for helping me think this through.
> >>>
> >>> I have been reading further in Christopher Alexander
> >> and find
> >>> myself in
> >>> a chapter where he speaks of the mass and the space
> >> of a
> >>> building as
> >>> interlocking. This gives me a new light, I think, on
> >> my
> >>> question and on
> >>> your response.
> >>>
> >>> What the question asks is subtle but for all that
> >> very real.
> >>> We are
> >>> shaping some space and the circle, the wall, the
> >> law, the
> >>> diversity are
> >>> the things with which we shape that space: they are
> >> the form,
> >>> the mass.
> >>> But I want to look at the space itself: what is its
> >> shape?
> >>>
> >>> This takes a change in perspective, much like an
> >> artist
> >>> looking at the
> >>> negative space that surrounds a maple leaf. We know
> >> the shape
> >>> of the
> >>> circle and the breathing in and breathing out from
> >> small to
> >>> large
> >>> groups; what shape is that which meets this shape?
> >>>
> >>> Here we are probably left to using word pictures,
> >> stories and
> >>> the like.
> >>> I remember someone once using "banter" to describe
> >> one
> >>> characteristic of
> >>> the space we are shaping. What is the shape of the
> >> space we
> >>> are
> >>> touching?
> >>>
> >>> :- Doug.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, 2009-09-06 at 11:22 -0700, Artur Silva
> >> wrote:
> >>>> Hi, Doug:
> >>>>
> >>>> In my opinion, what gives shape to the space are
> >> what I call
> >>> the
> >>>> foundations of OST: the circle, the invitation,
> >> diversity,
> >>> the Law,
> >>>> etc. In fact, we build the garden.
> >>>>
> >>>> The "thing" that the organization or community
> >> desires to
> >>> create is
> >>>> the content, or the building. That is made
> >> possible by the
> >>> OST design
> >>>> and foundations we have created - the garden, as
> >> you said.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards
> >>>>
> >>>> Artur
> >>>>
> >>>> PS: For more about OST "foundations" make a search
> >> in the
> >>> OSLIST
> >>>> Archives.
> >>>> --------------
> >>>>
> >>>> --- On Sun, 9/6/09, douglas germann
> >>> <76066.515 at compuserve.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> From: douglas germann
> >> <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
> >>>> Subject: [OSLIST] Christopher Alexander &
> >> the space
> >>> we are
> >>>> shaping
> >>>> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> >>>> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:20 AM
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi--
> >>>>
> >>>> Still reading Christopher Alexander and
> >> finding lots
> >>> of
> >>>> parallels to OS:
> >>>>
> >>>> Most important of all, it was the
> >> space
> >>> (more than the
> >>>> building)
> >>>> which was being formed. That flies
> >> against
> >>>> 20th-century
> >>>> awareness, which places too much
> >> emphasis on
> >>>> buildings. What
> >>>> mattered about the building is the
> >>> contribution it
> >>>> makes to the
> >>>> formation of shaped, coherent,
> >> public space.
> >>> That was
> >>>> where the
> >>>> inspiration came from, and it was
> >> that—later
> >>> —which
> >>>> made it
> >>>> possible to make the building
> >> beautiful.
> >>> Christopher
> >>>> Alexander,
> >>>> The Nature of Order: An Essay on
> >> the Art of
> >>> Building
> >>>> and The
> >>>> Nature of the Universe, Book
> >> Three: A Vision
> >>> of a
> >>>> Living World,
> >>>> p 138
> >>>>
> >>>> In another instance, he says that in
> >> designing a
> >>> home, it is
> >>>> best to
> >>>> design the garden first: when that is
> >> placed in the
> >>> most
> >>>> health-giving,
> >>>> nurturing spot, then the house is made
> >> that much
> >>> better, that
> >>>> much more
> >>>> wonderful. Garden first!
> >>>>
> >>>> The question this raises for me for OS is:
> >> most
> >>> often the
> >>>> communities in
> >>>> which we are opening space want to
> >> accomplish some
> >>> *thing*.
> >>>> This thing
> >>>> is Alexander's building. But he does not
> >> look first
> >>> at the
> >>>> building;
> >>>> rather he tries to shape public
> >> space--give it
> >>> volume, life.
> >>>> What are we
> >>>> trying to shape when we open space?
> >>>>
> >>>> It is easy for me to throw in a glib "we
> >> simply are
> >>> there to
> >>>> open
> >>>> space," but I think the inquiry needs to
> >> go deeper
> >>> than that.
> >>>> What is
> >>>> the shape of opened space? What makes it
> >> coherent?
> >>> What are
> >>>> the factors
> >>>> which give it shape?
> >>>>
> >>>> :- Doug.
> >>>>
> >>>> *
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> * *
> >>>
> >> ==========================================================
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> >>>> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view
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> >>> archives of
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> >>>> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> >>>> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *
> >>> *
> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > *
> > *
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>
> Wendy Farmer-O'Neil
> CEO Prospera Consulting
> wendy at xe.net
> 1-800-713-2351
>
> The moment of change is the only poem. -- Adrienne Rich
>
>
>
>
*
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