Christopher Alexander & the space we are shaping
douglas germann
76066.515 at compuserve.com
Sat Sep 12 15:36:51 PDT 2009
Artur--
Thanks! I think that is the way it is supposed to be.
:- Doug.
On Sat, 2009-09-12 at 05:39 -0700, Artur Silva wrote:
> When I click in Reply all (and not only Reply) it goes to the list.
>
> Artur
>
> --- On Sat, 9/12/09, douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
> Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Christopher Alexander & the space we are
> shaping
> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> Date: Saturday, September 12, 2009, 4:34 AM
>
> Hi Wendy and all--
>
> Is there something I can do about this? Harrison, how did you
> resolve
> it?
>
> :- Doug.
>
> On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 20:21 -0700, Wendy Farmer-O'Neil wrote:
> > Hi Doug,
> >
> > Just wanted to give you the heads up that when we click
> reply to you,
> > it goes just to your account, not to the list. Same problem
> Harrison
> > had a while back. So we are missing chunks of the
> conversation.
> >
> > :) Wendy
> >
> > On 11-Sep-09, at 6:38 PM, douglas germann wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks, Becky!
> > >
> > > :- Doug.
> > >
> > > On Fri, 2009-09-11 at 22:10 +0100, Becky Bloom wrote:
> > >> re: Christopher Alexander.
> > >>
> > >> Congratulations!
> > >>
> > >> -b.
> > >>
> > >> 2009/9/9 douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
> > >> Becky--
> > >>
> > >> Many thanks.
> > >>
> > >> Yes, I read A Pattern Language probably 10 or 15
> years ago.
> > >> The set I am
> > >> reading now, The Nature of Order, was written 25
> to 30 years
> > >> later (up
> > >> to at least 2002), and offers where Alexander's
> thought had
> > >> progressed
> > >> from there. He makes many references to the Eishin
> campus in
> > >> these
> > >> books. I am glad to see more photos of it on that
> Web page you
> > >> linked.
> > >> Too bad that the final version of the pattern
> language is not
> > >> available.
> > >> I like reading his kind of poetry!
> > >>
> > >> One of the things he distinguishes is a "pattern
> language"
> > >> from a "form
> > >> language," and I wonder if what you are referring
> to in your
> > >> x, y, z
> > >> wording might be a form language?
> > >>
> > >> I guess I am not sure what a mental rule is, and
> what examples
> > >> you might
> > >> give of mental rules.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks, Becky!
> > >>
> > >> :- Doug.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, 2009-09-08 at 17:28 +0100, Becky Bloom
> wrote:
> > >>> Doug,
> > >>>
> > >>> What really matters are the mental rules that determine
> 'the
> > >> DNA' (the
> > >>> enfolded order*) of each physical space, that *would*
> have
> > >> an
> > >>> enhancing effect on 'Opening Space' for instance --not
> a/the
> > >> exact
> > >>> predetermined geometry/form of space itself. < Apropos
> you
> > >> may want to
> > >>> read A Pattern Language at some point, also by Chris
> > >> Alexander (at
> > >>> al.) >
> > >>>
> > >>> The same mental rules could generate shapes of different
> > >> forms as in
> > >>> each case, order does not unfold in void -- its
> unfolding is
> > >> affected
> > >>> by 'local' conditions (geography, culture etc).
> > >>>
> > >>> Along the same lines, the enfolded order of each Open
> Space
> > >> event as
> > >>> it unflods --differently every time -- affects the
> existing
> > >> structure
> > >>> of a space shaped in a x, y, z way. Then site, space,
> > >> participants and
> > >>> ideas end up forming a coherent meaningful 'whole'. But
> this
> > >> 'whole'
> > >>> would have different physical properties and outcome
> even if
> > >> OS events
> > >>> are repeated in the same room and under the same
> conditions.
> > >>>
> > >>> You may also want to read how the design (site and
> > >> buildings) of the
> > >>> Eishin School (Japan) affected the knowledge management
> and
> > >> the
> > >>> academic performance in that specific student community.
> You
> > >> will be
> > >>> able to find some analogies with OS (Unfortunately I
> > >> haven't got any
> > >>> links of relevent lit.)
> > >>>
> > >>> Enjoy your reads.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> -b.
> > >>>
> > >>> * See David Bohm
> > >>>
> > >>> 2009/9/8 douglas germann <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
> > >>> Artur--
> > >>>
> > >>> Thank you for helping me think this through.
> > >>>
> > >>> I have been reading further in Christopher
> Alexander
> > >> and find
> > >>> myself in
> > >>> a chapter where he speaks of the mass and the
> space
> > >> of a
> > >>> building as
> > >>> interlocking. This gives me a new light, I think,
> on
> > >> my
> > >>> question and on
> > >>> your response.
> > >>>
> > >>> What the question asks is subtle but for all that
> > >> very real.
> > >>> We are
> > >>> shaping some space and the circle, the wall, the
> > >> law, the
> > >>> diversity are
> > >>> the things with which we shape that space: they
> are
> > >> the form,
> > >>> the mass.
> > >>> But I want to look at the space itself: what is
> its
> > >> shape?
> > >>>
> > >>> This takes a change in perspective, much like an
> > >> artist
> > >>> looking at the
> > >>> negative space that surrounds a maple leaf. We
> know
> > >> the shape
> > >>> of the
> > >>> circle and the breathing in and breathing out
> from
> > >> small to
> > >>> large
> > >>> groups; what shape is that which meets this
> shape?
> > >>>
> > >>> Here we are probably left to using word pictures,
> > >> stories and
> > >>> the like.
> > >>> I remember someone once using "banter" to
> describe
> > >> one
> > >>> characteristic of
> > >>> the space we are shaping. What is the shape of
> the
> > >> space we
> > >>> are
> > >>> touching?
> > >>>
> > >>> :- Doug.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sun, 2009-09-06 at 11:22 -0700, Artur Silva
> > >> wrote:
> > >>>> Hi, Doug:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> In my opinion, what gives shape to the space are
> > >> what I call
> > >>> the
> > >>>> foundations of OST: the circle, the invitation,
> > >> diversity,
> > >>> the Law,
> > >>>> etc. In fact, we build the garden.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The "thing" that the organization or community
> > >> desires to
> > >>> create is
> > >>>> the content, or the building. That is made
> > >> possible by the
> > >>> OST design
> > >>>> and foundations we have created - the garden, as
> > >> you said.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Regards
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Artur
> > >>>>
> > >>>> PS: For more about OST "foundations" make a search
> > >> in the
> > >>> OSLIST
> > >>>> Archives.
> > >>>> --------------
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --- On Sun, 9/6/09, douglas germann
> > >>> <76066.515 at compuserve.com> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> From: douglas germann
> > >> <76066.515 at compuserve.com>
> > >>>> Subject: [OSLIST] Christopher Alexander &
> > >> the space
> > >>> we are
> > >>>> shaping
> > >>>> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > >>>> Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 10:20 AM
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi--
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Still reading Christopher Alexander and
> > >> finding lots
> > >>> of
> > >>>> parallels to OS:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Most important of all, it was the
> > >> space
> > >>> (more than the
> > >>>> building)
> > >>>> which was being formed. That flies
> > >> against
> > >>>> 20th-century
> > >>>> awareness, which places too much
> > >> emphasis on
> > >>>> buildings. What
> > >>>> mattered about the building is the
> > >>> contribution it
> > >>>> makes to the
> > >>>> formation of shaped, coherent,
> > >> public space.
> > >>> That was
> > >>>> where the
> > >>>> inspiration came from, and it was
> > >> that—later
> > >>> —which
> > >>>> made it
> > >>>> possible to make the building
> > >> beautiful.
> > >>> Christopher
> > >>>> Alexander,
> > >>>> The Nature of Order: An Essay on
> > >> the Art of
> > >>> Building
> > >>>> and The
> > >>>> Nature of the Universe, Book
> > >> Three: A Vision
> > >>> of a
> > >>>> Living World,
> > >>>> p 138
> > >>>>
> > >>>> In another instance, he says that in
> > >> designing a
> > >>> home, it is
> > >>>> best to
> > >>>> design the garden first: when that is
> > >> placed in the
> > >>> most
> > >>>> health-giving,
> > >>>> nurturing spot, then the house is made
> > >> that much
> > >>> better, that
> > >>>> much more
> > >>>> wonderful. Garden first!
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The question this raises for me for OS is:
> > >> most
> > >>> often the
> > >>>> communities in
> > >>>> which we are opening space want to
> > >> accomplish some
> > >>> *thing*.
> > >>>> This thing
> > >>>> is Alexander's building. But he does not
> > >> look first
> > >>> at the
> > >>>> building;
> > >>>> rather he tries to shape public
> > >> space--give it
> > >>> volume, life.
> > >>>> What are we
> > >>>> trying to shape when we open space?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> It is easy for me to throw in a glib "we
> > >> simply are
> > >>> there to
> > >>>> open
> > >>>> space," but I think the inquiry needs to
> > >> go deeper
> > >>> than that.
> > >>>> What is
> > >>>> the shape of opened space? What makes it
> > >> coherent?
> > >>> What are
> > >>>> the factors
> > >>>> which give it shape?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> :- Doug.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> *
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> * *
> > >>>
> > >>
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> >
> > Wendy Farmer-O'Neil
> > CEO Prospera Consulting
> > wendy at xe.net
> > 1-800-713-2351
> >
> > The moment of change is the only poem. -- Adrienne Rich
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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