Come join us at Open Space Technology World Community Ning site!!
Denise Tennen
denisetennen at comcast.net
Thu Nov 19 21:00:51 PST 2009
Lucy is reflecting my feelings about this interchange
Denise
On Nov 19, 2009, at 2:40 PM, Lucy Garrick - NorthShore Group wrote:
> I am not so interested in the history of this debate or which
> website, Nings, blogs end up part of the OS community - I am just
> glad we have choices.
>
> Consider me someone who likes to know what time it is, but does not
> necessarily need to know how to build a watch.
>
> Because this discussion is on a listserv I get everysingle comment,
> and as a consequence I get to see what is going on all the time. I
> also have to scan and delete dozens of emails everyday or read them
> all - either is not a very efficient choice for me. What I like
> about a wiki, blog or discussion forum is that you can choose which
> discussion to follow.
>
> I wonder if it would be possible, and even a good idea at this
> point, to take this discussion about platforms to support the OS
> community to a blog or the Ning? If not, my only alternative is to
> ignore all posts or drop off the listserv.
>
> Thanks, Lucy
>
>
>
> Lucy Garrick
> NorthShore Group
> Business/Organizational Consultant/Coach
> http://www.northshoregroup.net
> Ph: +1*206-335-5635
> Time zone: PDT/GMT -7
> Blog: Global Outlook From The North Shore
> Twitter: NewsAboutChange
>
> On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:03 PM, Kaliya * wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 12:29 AM, Justin T. Sampson
>> <justin at krasama.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Kaliya *
>> <identitywoman at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yeah - MEATBALL WIKI IS NOT A MAINSTREAM WIKI.
>>
>> I must say I'm a bit baffled by this whole exchange. I often find
>> much value in your posts, but as a moderate techie you must
>> realize that ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED YELLING
>>
>> I was yelling.
>> I have been saying this to Micheal for years and he keeps saying
>> "it is mainstream" - and quite frankly it isn't.
>> Having an old out of date syntax that is not appropriate to expect
>> non-tech-inclined people to learn in this community.
>> Yes it may be easy to "install" and beautiful to maintain (From
>> your perspective as a developer) but that is beside the point if
>> it not usable for people like Lisa.
>>
>> I'm a more extreme techie (currently working as a software
>> engineer at Google), I've built and installed a bunch of software,
>> and I host a few small websites (including www.wosonos2008.org),
>> and I just have to point out that it's no trivial feat to keep a
>> site up and running for a decade, community involvement or no.
>>
>> Maybe it is not clear from the tone of how the dialogue unfolded.
>> I respect what Micheal has created and 10 years ago it was totally
>> appropriate to "Just put up a site" and the only way to maintain
>> it was to hand edit the HTML etc. This site is that kind of site -
>> hard to "just open up" and it is his right not to.
>>
>> When I first got to this community I went to find the wiki and
>> tried to edit it and got totally stalled and I am technically
>> literate and participate in many a open standards community
>> editing wiki's all the time. I counldn't easily access and change
>> this one. I assumed that this site was managed and developed by
>> and in community. I only learned from my dialogues with people
>> that "really it is Micheal's site" but the site doesn't say this.
>>
>> The site was not and still is not labeled as Micheal Herman's
>> "personal site" (put up in service of a community) and hopefully
>> now that he has come clean and "owned" that it is "his" this will
>> help our clients showing up on it thinking it is "THE worldwide
>> home of Open Space Technology" to realize that it is just one guys
>> site.
>>
>>
>> There are now many more collaborative community tool's that have
>> evolved in 10 years and I think we as a community should be using
>> them together. The web changed and the world wide home of open
>> space should change too.
>>
>>
>> UseMod, the wiki software used by both MeatBallWiki and
>> OpenSpaceWorld.NET, is open source, very simple, and super easy to
>> install and maintain. It's one of my favorite wiki systems for
>> those reasons. It was created 10 years ago and hence its syntax
>> and style are reminiscent of the original wiki.
>>
>> Yes - so it is fine for technie nerds like your self to "learn how
>> to edit" but not for regular folks here on OS land.
>> If we installed media wiki and people learned the syntax for that
>> - they could actually use it may other places including the whole
>> universe of media wiki sites.
>>
>>
>> had no trouble logging in and making some edits this evening (just
>> to add my name page). I went and looked at the website for that
>> Planet Planet feed aggregator you mentioned, to see how easy it is
>> to install, and there's no obvious documentation -- at first I
>> could only see some links to sync from their code repository,
>> until on third or fourth reading I noticed links to some tarballs.
>> And this is what you want Michael to install when you don't even
>> know how yourself?
>>
>> Because I am part of a really amazing technical community that
>> uses it to stay connected and thing it would be good for this
>> community - why not recommend it to Michael for this community.
>> Saying I should know how to install it to make the recomendation
>> doesn't make any sense.
>>
>>
>> Having gone through the pain of installing software too many
>> times, these days my first choice is definitely to go with a fully-
>> hosted and ad-supported system. It's definitely important to be
>> able to backup the data, though, so any guidance you can offer
>> about who supports what is extremely valuable. Also, the web
>> search rankings are indeed quite changeable -- in fact,
>> redesigning a successful site to make it more "beautiful" can
>> easily knock it off the top if you're not careful. I've seen it
>> happen, and it's no fun.
>>
>> Yes - I know search engine rankings are movable.
>>
>> BTW The wikipedia article also says this....in external links. ...
>>
>> "openspaceworld.org" Supporting and supported by Open Space
>> practitioners worldwide. The site offers materials (or links to
>> materials) in 20 different languages. Includes the primary website
>> of the Open Space Institute USA.
>>
>> I wonder if someone from the OSI-USA board can speak to the fact
>> that Micheal's personal site is considered their primary website.
>>
>>
>> I do think we can make a new and better real home for the world
>> wide community to connect and share about this amazing practice we
>> share.
>>
>> -Kaliya
>>
>>
>>
>> Please keep pushing for improvement and openness... And keep
>> breathing, too.
>>
>> With gentle respect,
>> Justin
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