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Lucy is reflecting my feelings about this interchange<div><br></div><div>Denise<br><div><div><div>On Nov 19, 2009, at 2:40 PM, Lucy Garrick - NorthShore Group wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">I am not so interested in the history of this debate or which website, Nings, blogs end up part of the OS community - I am just glad we have choices. <div><br></div><div>Consider me someone who likes to know what time it is, but does not necessarily need to know how to build a watch. </div><div><br></div><div>Because this discussion is on a listserv I get everysingle comment, and as a consequence I get to see what is going on all the time. I also have to scan and delete dozens of emails everyday or read them all - either is not a very efficient choice for me. What I like about a wiki, blog or discussion forum is that you can choose which discussion to follow. <div><br></div><div>I wonder if it would be possible, and even a good idea at this point, to take this discussion about platforms to support the OS community to a blog or the Ning? If not, my only alternative is to ignore all posts or drop off the listserv. </div><div><br></div><div>Thanks, Lucy<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div apple-content-edited="true"> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; ">Lucy Garrick</span></font><a href="http://www.northshoregroup.net/"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; "><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none; "></span></span></font></a></div><div><a href="http://www.northshoregroup.net/"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; ">NorthShore Group</span></font></a></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; ">Business/Organizational Consultant/Coach</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; "><a href="http://www.northshoregroup.net">http://www.northshoregroup.net</a></span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; ">Ph: +1*206-335-5635</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; ">Time zone: PDT/GMT -7</span></font></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; ">Blog: </span></font><a href="http://northshoregroup.net/blog/index.html"><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; ">Global Outlook From The North Shore</span></font></a></div><div><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; ">Twitter: </span></font><span style="color: windowtext; text-decoration: none; "><font class="Apple-style-span" size="3"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 11px; "><a href="http://twitter.com/NewsAboutChange">NewsAboutChange</a></span></font></span></div></div></span></div></span></div></span> </div><br><div><div>On Nov 19, 2009, at 12:03 PM, Kaliya * wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 12:29 AM, Justin T. Sampson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:justin@krasama.com">justin@krasama.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div class="gmail_quote"><div class="im">On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Kaliya * <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:identitywoman@gmail.com" target="_blank">identitywoman@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div class="gmail_quote"><div>Yeah - MEATBALL WIKI IS NOT A MAINSTREAM WIKI.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>I must say I'm a bit baffled by this whole exchange. I often find much value in your posts, but as a moderate techie you must realize that ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED YELLING </div> </div></blockquote><div><br>I was yelling.<br>I have been saying this to Micheal for years and he keeps saying "it is mainstream" - and quite frankly it isn't. <br>Having an old out of date syntax that is not appropriate to expect non-tech-inclined people to learn in this community.<br> Yes it may be easy to "install" and beautiful to maintain (From your perspective as a developer) but that is beside the point if it not usable for people like Lisa. <br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div class="gmail_quote"><div>I'm a more extreme techie (currently working as a software engineer at Google), I've built and installed a bunch of software, and I host a few small websites (including <a href="http://www.wosonos2008.org" target="_blank">www.wosonos2008.org</a>), and I just have to point out that it's no trivial feat to keep a site up and running for a decade, community involvement or no.</div> </div></blockquote><div><br>Maybe it is not clear from the tone of how the dialogue unfolded. I respect what Micheal has created and 10 years ago it was totally appropriate to "Just put up a site" and the only way to maintain it was to hand edit the HTML etc. This site is that kind of site - hard to "just open up" and it is his right not to. <br> <br>When I first got to this community I went to find the wiki and tried to edit it and got totally stalled and I am technically literate and participate in many a open standards community editing wiki's all the time. I counldn't easily access and change this one. I assumed that this site was managed and developed by and in community. I only learned from my dialogues with people that "really it is Micheal's site" but the site doesn't say this. <br> <br>The site was not and still is not labeled as Micheal Herman's "personal site" (put up in service of a community) and hopefully now that he has come clean and "owned" that it is "his" this will help our clients showing up on it thinking it is "THE worldwide home of <em>Open Space Technology</em>" to realize that it is just one guys site. <br> <br><br>There are now many more collaborative community tool's that have evolved in 10 years and I think we as a community should be using them together. The web changed and the world wide home of open space should change too. <br> <br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="gmail_quote"> <div>UseMod, the wiki software used by both MeatBallWiki and <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.net" target="_blank">OpenSpaceWorld.NET</a>, is open source, very simple, and super easy to install and maintain. It's one of my favorite wiki systems for those reasons. It was created 10 years ago and hence its syntax and style are reminiscent of the original wiki. </div> </div></blockquote><div><br>Yes - so it is fine for technie nerds like your self to "learn how to edit" but not for regular folks here on OS land. <br>If we installed media wiki and people learned the syntax for that - they could actually use it may other places including the whole universe of media wiki sites. <br> <br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> had no trouble logging in and making some edits this evening (just to add my name page). I went and looked at the website for that Planet Planet feed <span style="font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse;">aggregator</span> you mentioned, to see how easy it is to install, and there's no obvious documentation -- at first I could only see some links to sync from their code repository, until on third or fourth reading I noticed links to some tarballs. And this is what you want Michael to install when you don't even know how yourself?</div> </div></blockquote><div><br>Because I am part of a really amazing technical community that uses it to stay connected and thing it would be good for this community - why not recommend it to Michael for this community. Saying I should know how to install it to make the recomendation doesn't make any sense. <br> <br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="gmail_quote"> <div>Having gone through the pain of installing software too many times, these days my first choice is definitely to go with a fully-hosted and ad-supported system. It's definitely important to be able to backup the data, though, so any guidance you can offer about who supports what is extremely valuable. Also, the web search rankings are indeed quite changeable -- in fact, redesigning a successful site to make it more "beautiful" can easily knock it off the top if you're not careful. I've seen it happen, and it's no fun.</div> </div></blockquote><div><br>Yes - I know search engine rankings are movable. <br><br>BTW The wikipedia article also says this....in external links. ...<br> <br> <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/" class="external text" rel="nofollow">"openspaceworld.org"</a> Supporting and supported by Open Space practitioners worldwide. The site offers materials (or links to materials) in 20 different languages. Includes the primary website of the Open Space Institute USA.<br><br>I wonder if someone from the OSI-USA board can speak to the fact that Micheal's personal site is considered their primary website. <br> <br><br>I do think we can make a new and better real home for the world wide community to connect and share about this amazing practice we share. <br><br>-Kaliya<br><br> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div class="gmail_quote"> <div><br></div><div>Please keep pushing for improvement and openness... And keep breathing, too.</div><div><br></div><div>With gentle respect,</div><div>Justin</div></div><div><div></div><div class="h5"> * * ========================================================== <a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of <a href="mailto:oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu" target="_blank">oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu</a>: <a href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" target="_blank">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist" target="_blank">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a> </div></div></blockquote></div><br> * * ========================================================== <a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a> ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of <a href="mailto:oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu">oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu</a>: <a href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>* * ========================================================== OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of oslist@listserv.boisestate.edu: <a href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html">http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</a> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</a></blockquote></div><br></div></div></body></html>*
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