Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?

Robyn Williams pov at iinet.net.au
Thu May 28 19:11:38 PDT 2009


I’m enjoying this conversation. I live in an intentional “non-hierarchal” community which has been evolving for nearly 20 years. The issue of rules, boundaries, organic expression, self-organising has been discussed, lived, mucked around with, fallen over, picked up and dusted off, lashed into a girdle and stuck in the corner, released, let free, run amock, chided, behaved itself, laughed at and taken very very seriously at various times.

 

My learning – semi & permeable membranes are necessary. To be clear, I’m not talking prescriptive rules.

 

When I was a kid in the late sixties my folks had a record by comedian Shelley Berman. Hilarious, I loved it. He sang a ditty to the tune of “You’ve gotta have heart (buda-bom)”. The opening lyrics went something like, “You gotta have skin, it’s the only thing that keeps your insides in…”. Its wisdom has rung in my ears ever since. No wonder I’m into the practice of peace.

 

 

Cheers, Robyn

 

Robyn Williams

POV Communication for Sustainability

M: 0424 587 262

E:  <mailto:pov at iinet.net.au> pov at iinet.net.au

 

From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Larry Peterson
Sent: Friday, 29 May 2009 8:22 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?

 

Maybe a “foundation” is another word for how I often describe the “principles”.  I encourage people, when I open a space, to make some assumptions about the gathering to assume what are stated as principles and to act on that basis during the event.  I think these only become “assumed” after some evolution of consciousness and I don’t experience most folks in organizations being there.  I think it is important to articulate them, to influence the “social construction” of the boundaries of the OST event along with the most important part – the focus question or theme.  Yep, it may be a bit of ritualized behaviour but I think it helps increase the possibilities what will emerge in the self-organizing process that will happen anyway.  Besides, I (we as facilitators) are one of the “selves” in the self-organization.

 

Larry

 

 

Larry Peterson & Associates in Transformation

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 <mailto:larry at spiritedorg.com> larry at spiritedorg.com   416.653.4829  <http://www.spiritedorg.com/> http://www.spiritedorg.com

 

 

 

From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Artur Silva
Sent: May-27-09 5:54 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?

 


Harrison, Larry and all:

 

I am afraid that I continue to read only the messages from this list from time to time...

 

Today, I read this answer from Harrison to a reply from Larry to an original comment by Harrison. The 3 messages referred are listed below, and I ask you to first read the parts of those messages that I have transformed in bold.

 

(...) Thanks for having done that ;-)

 

Now, I am happy that Harrison agrees that "the 4 principles and one law are neither laws nor principles actually" and that there will come a day when The Law and The Principles can be assigned to that wonderful status of “One more thing not to do.”

 

But Larry commented, very wisely as usual, about the importance of some form of “boundaries” or “container” for self-organization. 

 

So, maybe it is the appropriate time to reintroduce a discussion that I have tried to introduce many moons ago, about what are the foundations of OST. 

 

I mean, 

 

1) if the principles are not "principles" after all, but only what always happens, and eventually even "one more thing not to do" (and I remember you that I have done some OST experiments without reference to the Principles - and all went well as usual), but

 

2) Some form of boundary or container is needed 

 

where this boundary or container does comes from?  

 

I have proposed to call that the "foundations" (not principles) of OST and proposed some ideas (that are only preliminary ideas) I would like to read (again) your opinions about.

 

You can found my (preliminary) proposals, of some time ago, here 

 <http://www.openspaceworld.org/cgi/netwiki.cgi?FoundationsofOST> http://www.openspaceworld.org/cgi/netwiki.cgi?FoundationsofOST

 

and here 

 

 <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401&L=oslist&P=R23925&I=-3&X=6543D44B5D0A7C3BC4&Y=arturfsilva%40yahoo.com> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401&L=oslist&P=R23925&I=-3&X=6543D44B5D0A7C3BC4&Y=arturfsilva%40yahoo.com.

 

Looking forward to hear from you all

 

Warn regards from a warm night in Lisbon

 

Artur

 

------

 



--- On Wed, 5/27/09, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:


From: Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 7:23 AM

Right on Larry – and I found a very curious and embarrassing typo in my small piece. I said, “They (the Principles and the Law) are descriptive as opposed to descriptive.” I meant to say,”They are descriptive as opposed to prescriptive.” Point is neither the Law nor the Principles tell you what to do – they simply alert everybody to what will be taking place no matter what. I think that is a useful function, but it really doesn’t change a thing. In short – there will come a day when The Law and The Principles can be assigned to that wonderful status of “One more thing not to do.”

 

Harrison 

 

Harrison Owen

7808 River Falls Drive

Potomac, Maryland   20854

Phone 301-365-2093

Skype hhowen

Open Space Training  <http://www.openspaceworld.com/> www.openspaceworld.com 

Open Space Institute  <http://www.openspaceworld.org/> www.openspaceworld.org

Personal website  <http://www.ho-image.com/> www.ho-image.com 

OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit:  <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html> www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

 

-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Larry Peterson
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:44 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Anti Laws of OST

 

For me, there is more sense in the “Principles and Law” than non-sense.  Stewart Kauffman explores the importance of some form of “boundaries” or “container” for self-organization, particularly that of cells.  He believes (with strong scientific evidence) that real physical work only gets done within some “boundaries” or it dissipates.  Cells, he asserts, co-create their “boundaries” with their environment through self-organizing relationships in every moment.  The boundaries are permeable, constructs, open to interchange with their environment. (No such thing as a closed system!)

 

Harrison, I believe you have articulated a set of socially constructed permeable “boundaries” for enhancing human self-organization – including the focus/theme, principles and law.  These set a temporary set of “boundaries” or a “container” both focused and open that change the perceived conditions for self-organization at an event or meeting.  Self-organization is happening all the time, in every moment.  Our mental maps (in practice) and feelings shape what we do as we self-organize – what topics we propose and who we connect to.  Are they necessary for self-organization (Open Space) – no, it is happening all the time as order emerges.  Do they (or other similar statements about the social framework for our self-organizing) help people to self-organize in exciting and creative ways?  I think so.

 

Larry

 

 

Larry Peterson & Associates in Transformation

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 <http://us.mc546.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=larry@spiritedorg.com> larry at spiritedorg.com   416.653.4829  <http://www.spiritedorg.com/> http://www.spiritedorg.com

 

 

 

From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harrison Owen
Sent: May-25-09 2:59 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST

 

Just to render the whole thing non-sensical, the 4 principles and one law are neither laws nor principles actually. To be honest they are just my (and others’) observations of what seemed to be happening in any case. In a word they are descriptive as opposed to descriptive – You could say it is all a joke. Rather like “technology” in the phrase Open Space Technology. The joke, however turned out to be outrageously funny – because somehow or another truth broke through. We are in serious trouble! Everybody knows that what happens in Open Space simply can’t happen. Unfortunately it does – and that makes a joke out of a whole mess of other stuff – like most of what we think we know about meetings, the management of meetings, and management itself. Double trouble!!

 

Harrison

 

Harrison Owen

7808 River Falls Drive

Potomac, Maryland   20854

Phone 301-365-2093

Skype hhowen

Open Space Training  <http://www.openspaceworld.com/> www.openspaceworld.com 

Open Space Institute  <http://www.openspaceworld.org/> www.openspaceworld.org

Personal website  <http://www.ho-image.com/> www.ho-image.com 

OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit:  <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html> www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

 

.org/oslist


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