helping the whole
douglas germann
76066.515 at compuserve.com
Mon Jun 15 18:44:39 PDT 2009
Wendy--
Thanks.
Alexander's concept of nesting feels a bit more wobbly than the picture
of the holarchy you have triggered in me. The holarchy I am picturing is
like a set of Russian nested dolls--as you open them up you encounter
ever smaller and smaller wholes.
Alexander speaks of "centers" which may be inside one another like this,
but are just as apt to be outside and beyond the borders or overlapping.
So people going from session to session in an OS (I picture Phelim's
video here) are centers, and are recursive only from the fact that many
of them are recurring in this space. In the same way, multiple stones
set in a ring, all pointing toward the diamond in the center, are
recursive centers, and nested in some way I cannot explain. Alexander's
15 properties of life-creating centers has such things as local
symmetries, deep interlock and ambiguity, echoes, roughness, boundaries,
gradients, alternating repetition, and my personal favorite, the void.
This all seems to me to carry the idea of nesting farther than my own
limited picture of nesting dolls.
Which is all to say that I do not understand any of this half so well as
I have written it here. <grin>
:- Doug.
On Mon, 2009-06-15 at 07:41 -0700, Wendy Farmer-O'Neil wrote:
> >
> > You sound pretty close to it to me, Doug. The nesting Alexander
> > speaks of may be something like the concept of holons in Integral.
> > Where each entity is both a whole unto itself and an intrinsic part
> > of a yet larger whole--all nested in a great holarchy of being. The
> > boundaries of each dependent on what perspective is engaged at any
> > particular moment. Pretty fluid, paradoxical stuff as you've
> > intuited.
> >
> > Circles of belonging. To me, mean those nested ecologies of
> > relationship we cultivate that provide us with our sense of
> > belonging, of community, of personal meaning and affirmation. Some
> > folks sadly don't seem to experience this at all anywhere in their
> > lives. I believe that circles of belonging are vital to our health
> > and our future. Our family can be one, our friends can be one, our
> > neighbourhood, church, or workplace could be too. This is where the
> > skill comes in. So many of us need to learn how to be intimate
> > together, so that we can reflect our worth to each other in ways
> > that truly liberate and validate our experience of our humanness.
> >
> > much love,
> > Wendy
> >
> > On 14-Jun-09, at 4:05 PM, douglas germann wrote:
> >
> >> Larry--
> >>
> >> I suspect that is what Alexander is saying. In effect, the individual
> >> center and the whole give each other life. He speaks of nesting a
> >> couple
> >> of places, but I have yet to figure out exactly what he means by
> >> it. It
> >> is almost like the light in the projector and the image on the screen
> >> appear at the same time. (There are no really good metaphors.) But in
> >> this case, the image on the screen helps give life/light to the
> >> projector!
> >>
> >> Have not studied the integral perspective, so I am not sure I am
> >> catching your meaning, or responding appropriately, Larry.
> >>
> >> :- Doug.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, 2009-06-12 at 10:07 -0400, Larry Peterson wrote:
> >>> Yes and! An integral perspective suggests that the individual, the
> >>> group, the behaviour and the interrelationships are all
> >>> constituent of
> >>> who we are and the reality that we are part of in every moment.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Larry
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Larry Peterson & Associates in Transformation
> >>>
> >>> Toronto, Ontario, Canada
> >>>
> >>> larry at spiritedorg.com 416.653.4829 http://www.spiritedorg.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of
> >>> Wendy Farmer-O'Neil
> >>> Sent: June-12-09 1:56 AM
> >>> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> >>> Subject: [OSLIST] Fwd: [OSLIST] helping the whole
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Circles of Belonging, Doug.
> >>>
> >>> Don't we feel most alive when we know we are truly
> >>> significant? That our existence matters essentially to
> >>> another? We can only see that truly reflected in the eyes of
> >>> our community.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Explains modern existential angst. Without true community and
> >>> a way to find our place in it--we find life deadened, numbing,
> >>> meaningless. Same is mirrored in organizations. We have
> >>> largely managed (all puns intended) to engineer an inhuman
> >>> context for ourselves.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Re-membering and re-claiming the skills and patterns of
> >>> connecting to the whole is a vital process for our future. We
> >>> will know we have arrived when, as Harrison has recently
> >>> pointed out, OST is just one of the ways we do things. I
> >>> believe the deep inner resonance for this sense of one's place
> >>> in the whole is what many people experience and enjoy about
> >>> open space.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> thanks for all these great quotes. I've wanted to read his
> >>> work for so long. This is a real treat.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> hugs,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Wendy
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 11-Jun-09, at 8:04 PM, douglas germann wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi--
> >>>
> >>> Another evocative piece from Christopher Alexander:
> >>>
> >>> It is their presence in the whole, and the fact that they are
> >>> helping the life of the whole, which gives them their
> >>> individual life....Italics in original. Christopher Alexander,
> >>> The Nature of Order: An Essay on the Art of Building and The
> >>> Nature of the Universe, Book One: The Phenomenon of Life, p
> >>> 431
> >>>
> >>> What I am seeing here as an inside-out truth, is that in a
> >>> group we do not lend the group our individual life, it goes
> >>> somewhat the other way round about. What gives us our
> >>> individual existence and life is our presence in the group,
> >>> our helping of the group; in turn the others helping the group
> >>> give us life. We intensify each other.
> >>>
> >>> Can this be true?
> >>>
> >>> :- Doug.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> * * ==========================================================
> >>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------
> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
> >>> archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> >>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn
> >>> about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> >>> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Wendy Farmer-O'Neil
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> CEO Prospera Consulting
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> wendy at xe.net
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 1-800-713-2351
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The moment of change is the only poem. -- Adrienne Rich
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Wendy Farmer-O'Neil
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> CEO Prospera Consulting
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> wendy at xe.net
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 1-800-713-2351
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The moment of change is the only poem. -- Adrienne Rich
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> * * ==========================================================
> >>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To
> >>> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> >>> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> >>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
> >>> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> >>> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> * * ==========================================================
> >>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To
> >>> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> >>> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> >>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about
> >>> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> >>> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> >>
> >> *
> >> *
> >> ==========================================================
> >> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> >> ------------------------------
> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> >> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> >> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
> >>
> >> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> >> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
> >>
> >
> > Wendy Farmer-O'Neil
> > CEO Prospera Consulting
> > wendy at xe.net
> > 1-800-713-2351
> >
> > The moment of change is the only poem. -- Adrienne Rich
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Wendy Farmer-O'Neil
> CEO Prospera Consulting
> wendy at xe.net
> 1-800-713-2351
>
> The moment of change is the only poem. -- Adrienne Rich
>
> *
> *
> ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> ------------------------------
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
> view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
> http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist
More information about the OSList
mailing list