SPAM-LOW: Re: AW: How can we foster sustainable outcomes?

Steve Engle stefano.engle at gmail.com
Wed Jul 1 09:54:25 PDT 2009


"It is important to strike a balance between what the client wants and what
will work to get them where they hope to go."

Wait, you mean they're different?  (just joking)

-Steve

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Lucy Garrick - NorthShore Group <
lgarrick at northshoregroup.net> wrote:

> Hi Suzanne,
> I understand how you feel.  Many of your questions are  as much about
> consulting (a practice) as they are about OS (an intervention methodology).
>  When I first began consulting on my own I had consulted with some companies
> that used more of what consultant think of as the "expert" model of
> consulting.  Excuse me if this is old info, but are you familiar with Edgar
> Schein's book, "Process Consultation Revisited"?  Also Peter Block's
> "Flawless Consulting" is another good resource on process consultation.  It
> is important to strike a balance between what the client wants and what will
> work to get them where they hope to go.
>
> Best, Lucy Garrick
>
>
>       NorthShore Group
> Organization Strategy, Planning and Leadership Consulting
> Professional Coaching
> http://www.northshoregroup.net<http://northshoregroup.net/blog/index.html>
> Blog:  Global Outlook from the NorthShore<http://northshoregroup.net/blog/index.html>
> Phone: +1*206-335-5635
> Time Zone: Seattle, WA USA Pacific Standard (PST)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 1, 2009, at 3:55 AM, Suzanne Daigle wrote:
>
> (warning very long...)
>
> As I follow and reflect on the discussion about visual protocol and
> offering visual results from an Open Space experience and then think about
> how we connect benefits of self-organizing to a client’s desired outcome, so
> many questions surface for me.
>
> How can we honor a client’s desired outcome which assumes predictability
> and control when Open Space invites something quite different?  With my
> limited experience with Open Space (I’ve only done two as an unpaid
> volunteer) and a long corporate career, my gut tells me that the Open Space
> way of lighting up passion and responsibility in individuals and collectives
> will lead to results that far exceed what a client could initially expect.
>   I know because all my life, I’ve seen how much gets accomplished when
> people are passionate about what they do.  Open Space is all about that.
> Many clients want a clear-cut route to improved results, better service,
> higher quality, etc.  This we cannot promise.  Rather, OS is a journey, a
> new way of doing which means undoing what didn’t work, and seeing what we
> don’t’ want to see to create what we can’t know.
>
> How can we effectively convey to a client the importance of gut feel and
> intuition, inviting them to an experience that they must “feel” and not just
> “think”? The dilemma is that you cannot know Open Space until you’ve done
> Open Space and not just once.  How can you describe what get’s ignited in
> people when they get to choose (Law of Two Feet), feel Equal and live/work
> according to principles (4 OS principles) – something that makes so much
> sense but that is so different than what our current hierarchical world
> dictates?
>
> Once people are activated in an Open Space way, I think it ignites a
> longing that is in each of us and the difficulty is that you just don’t want
> to go back to the old way. How then do we blend traditional and
> self-organizing?
>
> I struggle with these questions and as I embark on this wild ride of OS, I
> imagine myself building trust at the beginning of my relationship with
> clients talking about the issues that they care about and that they know:
> their business.  Hopefully by connecting and being honest, I will
> establish enough trust so that they will want to try this new way, knowing
> deep inside them that the old ways aren’t working any more.  It’s about
> finding the courage of our voice and actions, doing this together in a
> supportive way.
>
> Knowing that we cannot immediately and fully internalize all that OS
> represents, I then struggle with how we can optimize and capture what Open
> Space does inside you.  What I did with incredible help from Michele
> Young, who assisted me on the two Open Spaces that I facilitated, was create
> a visual show that not only tried to capture in its authenticity what
> happened there but also tried to convey the spirit of the invitation and
> preparation and the OS concepts and themes of this new way of being so that
> people through pictures can remember what it “felt” like to be part of this.
>   I questioned myself in doing so wondering if this went against the
> principles of self-organizing, equality, and the self-effacing role of a
> facilitator. Then I told myself: heck…I’m doing it anyway as a gift.
>
>  IONS Conference Open Space in Tucson
> *
> http://www.authorstream.com/Presentation/daigle_Suzanne-208049-ions-away-presentation-open-space-spiritual-inspirational-ppt-powerpoint/
> *
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Michael -- I think J
>>
>>
>> Harrison
>>
>>
>> Harrison Owen
>>
>> 189 Beaucaire Ave
>>
>> Camden, ME 04843
>>
>> 207-763-3261 (Summer)
>>
>> 301-365-2093 (Winter)
>>
>> Website www.openspaceworld.com
>>
>> Personal Website www.ho-image.com
>>
>> OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options
>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael
>> M Pannwitz
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:46 AM
>> To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> Subject: Re: AW: How can we foster sustainable outcomes?
>>
>>
>> Liebe Catherine,
>>
>> ich hab zu Deiner Frage schon mal in dieser Liste auf Englisch
>>
>> geschrieben, aber hier kommts nochmal auf deutsch (ich fänds super,
>>
>> wenns auch noch jemand, der es auf französisch und italienisch und
>>
>> Latein probiert, aufschreibt, damit es sich in der ganzen Schweiz
>>
>> verbreiten kann):
>>
>>
>> Mich interessieren Nachhaltigkeit oder nachhaltige Ergebnisse in meiner
>>
>> Rolle als Begleiter überhaupt nicht.
>>
>>
>> Wenn der Veranstalter allerdings sowas will, nehm ich ihm ja auch in
>>
>> keiner Weise krumm, dann sage ich ihm, was er tun kann, damit die
>>
>> Wahrscheinlichkeit von nachhaltiger Umsetzung von Verabredungen zu
>>
>> Vorhaben steigt und welcher Aufwand von Veranstaltern dazu mit ziemlich
>>
>> gutem Erfolg dafür betrieben worden ist.
>>
>>
>> Gleich zu Anfang möchte ich Dir aber verraten, dass die Form der
>>
>> Dokumentation dabei eine eher untergeordnete Rolle spielt (hierzu hatte
>>
>> ich auch auf die Berichte von John Engle verwiesen aus Situationen, in
>>
>> denen es kein Papier, keine Stifte gibt und in denen viele der
>>
>> Teilnehmenden auch nicht lesen oder schreiben können).
>>
>>
>> Also hier meine Hinweise an den Veranstalter:
>>
>>
>> 1. Ein Vorbereitungstreffen mit einer Gruppe, die in etwa die erwartete
>>
>> Teilnehmerschaft abbildet, also das ganze System, wie es sich zu diesem
>>
>> Zeitpunkt für ihn darstellt, zusammenbringen. Sie / er gehört dazu.
>>
>> Optimal ist, wenn diese Gruppe authorisiert ist mit ihr / ihm gemeinsame
>>
>> alles zu entscheiden: Thema, Einzuladende, Einladung, Organisation, etc.
>>
>> Ich biete ihm die Begleitung des in der Regel 3,5stündigen Treffens an.
>>
>> 2. Eine Einladung, in der nicht nur zu der Veranstaltung eingeladen
>>
>> wird, sondern auch schon zu dem 8 bis 12 Wochen später stattfindendem
>>
>> "Nächsten Treffen", bei dem die Vorhaben, die in der Handlungsplanung am
>>
>> Ende der OST Veranstaltung verabredet wurden, angeschaut werden...wo
>>
>> sind wir jetzt?, gibts neue Vorhaben?, wie gehts weiter?...plus mögliche
>>
>> weitere "Nächste Treffen".
>>
>> 3. Ein Verfahren, in dem so gut wie es irgendwie möglich ist
>>
>> sichergestellt wird, dass all diejenigen auf jeweils spezifische Art und
>>
>> Weise vom Veranstalter und Mitgliedern der Vorbereitungsgruppe
>>
>> eingeladen werden, die dafür notwendig erscheinen, die Erwartungen unter
>>
>> der gewählten Überschrift auch tatsächlich einzulösen.
>>
>> 4. Eine dreitägige Veranstaltung, also 16 Stunden auf drei Tage verteilt
>>
>> (Nachmittag, ganzer Tag, Vor-oder Nachmittag), zweimal schlafen, mit
>>
>> einer Handlungsplanung am letzten Tag.
>>
>> 5. Eine Dokuwand mit allen aus den Anliegengruppen entstehenden
>>
>> Ergebnissen, die nochmal von allen gegen Ende des 2. Tages gemeinsame
>>
>> zur Kenntnis genommen wird mit der Möglichkeit, dann noch zu jedem
>>
>> Ergebnisblatt auf einem Ergänzungsblatt weitere Fragen, Hinweise, etc.
>>
>> festzuhalten.(Diese gesammelten Werke können entweder als Papierdoku in
>>
>> der Nacht vom 2. auf den 3. Tag hergestellt werden und den Teilnehmenden
>>
>> am dritten Tag morgens gegeben werden oder als pdf/eDoku nach der
>>
>> Veranstaltung auf einer www erscheinen, zu der die Teilnehmenden Zugang
>>
>> haben).
>>
>> 6. Eine Kontaktliste der Teilnehmenden mit von den TeilnehmerInnen
>>
>> überprüften Kontaktdaten für alle Teilnehmenden, die das wollen, am Ende
>>
>> der Veranstaltung an alle Teilnehmenden für die Kommunikation nach der
>>
>> Tagung verteilen (die Kontaktliste wurde im Laufe der Veranstaltung von
>>
>> den Teilnehmenden selber erstellt).
>>
>> 7. Kopien der Verabredungen, die in der Handlungsplanung zu den Vorhaben
>>
>> entstanden sind, an alle Teilnehmenden innert einer Woche nach der
>>
>> Veranstaltung verschicken samt Einladung zu dem bereits bekannten
>>
>> "Nächsten Treffen".
>>
>> 8. Deutliche Hinweise darauf, das alles von den Teilnehmenden so weit es
>>
>> irgend möglich ist, selbst getan wird (ihre Anliegengruppen selbständig
>>
>> organisieren,Dokublätter anfertigen,Kontaktliste erstellen...)
>>
>>
>> Für Veranstalter, die Nachhaltigkeit wollen, ist das alles sehr einfach,
>>
>> einleuchtend, notwendig.
>>
>> Für Veranstalter, die das nicht (wirklich) wollen, ist das alles eine
>>
>> eher unüberwindbare Barriere.
>>
>>
>> So, das ist das, was ich mache und ich möchte nicht, dass es als Rezept
>>
>> verstanden wird. Wenn jemand es so ausprobiert, würde es mich
>>
>> überraschen, wenn es nicht klappt....
>>
>>
>> Herzlich Grüße aus Berlin
>>
>> mmp
>>
>>
>> Catherine Pfaehler wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Reinhard
>>
>> >
>>
>> > As you describe it in depth, it becomes more understandable and really
>>
>> > sounds wonderful.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > What about writing a book on methods and hints for visual protocols? I
>>
>> > especially like your idea of the participants doing the visual protocols
>>
>> > themselves. Some might even discover they have a talent they weren't
>> aware
>>
>> > of!
>>
>> >
>>
>> > And my original question remains open - what do others do to foster
>>
>> > sustainable outcomes?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Heartfully, C.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Catherine Pfaehler Senn
>>
>> > lic.oec.HSG
>>
>> > Open Space Begleitung
>>
>> > St. Alban-Vorstadt 15
>>
>> > CH - 4052 Basel
>>
>> > +41-(0)76 - 488 15 46
>>
>> > c.pfaehler at open-space-begleitung.ch
>>
>> > www.open-space-begleitung.ch
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>
>> > Von: Reinhard Kuchenmueller [mailto:mail at visuelle-protokolle.de]
>>
>> > Gesendet: Samstag, 27. Juni 2009 07:01
>>
>> > An: c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch; OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>
>> > Betreff: AW: How can we foster sustainable outcomes?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Dear Catherine,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > it seems t get a dialogue between you and me - and Harrison defending
>> his
>>
>> > turf - while all the others are busy discussing Paris Stammtisch and
>> some
>>
>> > problems of dogma and exegesis in the holy principles.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >  My focus lies on  the os meeting. My heart belongs to the paricipating
>>
>> > people, my head to the client behind everything.  In a meeting of lets
>> say
>>
>> > 200 participants everybody can choose between lets say ten group themes
>> in
>>
>> > every time slot. If it goes for two days, with five time slots, that
>> makes
>>
>> > 50 groups of which the everage participant chooses five groups. All the
>>
>> > other groups, their themes, their surprising developments, their
>> exitement,
>>
>> > their outcome, does not exist for him. All the groups make some
>> protocols,
>>
>> > but in the worst possible way, in handwriting, and some typed short
>> version.
>>
>> > Our everage participant does rarely read the outcomes of other groups.
>> The
>>
>> > facilitator made himself invisible and is of little help. So his horizon
>> is
>>
>> > built from 10 percent of the whole meeting. He goes home with a
>> beautiful
>>
>> > experience  of team building and self organisation, and some memeory of
>> 10
>>
>> > percent of the meeting. The client goes home with some written excerpts,
>> and
>>
>> > if he is lucky he will be confronted with some ideas afterwards, of
>> people
>>
>> > who want to ontinue their threads. Who is helping him to build the
>> bridge
>>
>> > between his basic theme, his exspectations, and the outcome? The
>>
>> > facilitator? By which means?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I would wish all the os people could take part just once in a visualized
>> os
>>
>> > event. Some witnesses, fair minded, impartial, are moving from group to
>>
>> > group, gathering process, results and atmosphere on small picture cards.
>>
>> > Nobody is noticing them. They put these picture cards into a big picture
>>
>> > wall, all the time, so that everybody who passes can get all the
>> procedures
>>
>> > in some seconds time. And in the evening all the picture cards,
>> digitalized
>>
>> > in the meantime, are shown to the plenum as a slide show with some
>> music,
>>
>> > for about 10 minutes The participants not only increase the memory of
>> their
>>
>> > own group from 20 to 60 percent, as scientists can proove, but at the
>> same
>>
>> > time they get an overview about the whole big theme in all its
>> complexity.
>>
>> > As if they can suddenly see the whole tree, of which they were busy
>> handling
>>
>> > some branches so far. I experienced a deep satisfaction among the
>>
>> > participants every time we did that work. Of course all that is against
>> the
>>
>> > old os dogma, but that does not bother the people at all.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > And the client? He gets a detailled insight into all the groups. The
>> little
>>
>> > images can be used in many ways to foster sustainable outcomes, as you
>> say.
>>
>> > They can be clustered, regrouped, with atonishing results, showing what
>>
>> > people really said and mean.They can be used as material to work with in
>>
>> > smaller groups who continue with some items, they can be put into the
>>
>> > intranet, printed as leaflets, little books, calendars, posters, hang in
>> the
>>
>> > corridors ...  As means to take the results really seriously.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > AND NOW THE BIG QUESTION: is that worth the extra costs of extra people,
>> who
>>
>> > visualize the event? Some clients say yes, it is. It makes the
>> difference
>>
>> > between a beautiful experience of self orgsnization and the welding of a
>>
>> > tool for the organization.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I myself would not propose to visualize every os meeting by external
>>
>> > visualizers.  I would like very much to experiment with internal
>>
>> > visualization. We developed different ways of visualizing  by
>> participants.
>>
>> > Once we made 800 union people in vienna draw in little groups, 72
>> images,
>>
>> > with an amazing result.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I can imagine, that in every os group two or three people start to
>> doodle,
>>
>> > to draw what they experience, on little cards. A bit like world cafe (I
>>
>> > propose to the world cafe people to use little cards as well). And then
>> like
>>
>> > said before, the cards can be hung into the picture wall, group by
>> geoup,
>>
>> > and shown in the evening as slide show. I would very much like to
>> develop
>>
>> > this method and to make it available to the whole os community.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > mit freundlichen Grüßen
>>
>> > best regards
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Reinhard Kuchenmüller
>>
>> >
>>
>> > VISUELLE PROTOKOLLE
>>
>> >
>>
>> > tel. +39-0566 88929
>>
>> > www.visuelle-protokolle.de
>>
>> > ________________________________________
>>
>> > Von: Catherine Pfaehler [c.pfaehler at bluewin.ch]
>>
>> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. Juni 2009 17:15
>>
>> > An: Reinhard Kuchenmueller
>>
>> > Cc: 'OSLIST'
>>
>> > Betreff: How can we foster sustainable outcomes?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Dear Reinhard
>>
>> >
>>
>> > You have a very interesting point there. I have often wondered how the
>>
>> > sustainable implementation of visible results can be fostered "better"
>> by
>>
>> > me, as in the post-OS-meeting, I often find my clients to focus on
>> different
>>
>> > things than what I would have expected.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Then, again, on the other side, I am well aware that a most important
>> side
>>
>> > result of an OS event is always teambuilding, communication and a
>> stronger
>>
>> > commitment to their organisation by many participants. And if I succeed
>> in
>>
>> > allowing the client to really be responsible for what happens with the
>>
>> > results, then I need to let go after having asked the evaluation
>> questions
>>
>> > and some others like "Does anything need a vessel for coordination now?"
>> and
>>
>> > "What has been developing since the OS event?".
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Other opinions??
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Heartfully, C.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Catherine Pfaehler Senn
>>
>> > lic.oec.HSG
>>
>> > Open Space Begleitung
>>
>> > St. Alban-Vorstadt 15
>>
>> > CH - 4052 Basel
>>
>> > +41-(0)76 - 488 15 46
>>
>> > c.pfaehler at open-space-begleitung.ch
>>
>> > www.open-space-begleitung.ch
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>
>> > Von: Reinhard Kuchenmueller [mailto:mail at visuelle-protokolle.de]
>>
>> > Gesendet: Montag, 22. Juni 2009 19:12
>>
>> > Betreff: AW: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > my two cents:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > a principle is defined as a law superordinated to every other law.
>>
>> > Condition: A certain effect can always be retraced to the same
>> constellation
>>
>> > of facts. (wikipedia).
>>
>> >
>>
>> > In this sense Harrison's principles are definitively no principles at
>> all.
>>
>> > But he was really clever: two martinis and four mundane sentences - and
>> the
>>
>> > whole world is repeating them like a mantra. Mantras, as the east knows
>>
>> > since thousands of years, don't have to have a meaning, the essence lies
>>
>> > behind them. It only gets painful, if you start to worship the mantras
>>
>> > instead of the essence.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Why is open space so effective? Certainly not because of the mantras. As
>> I
>>
>> > see it, we have to dig deeper:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I could think of principles like:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > People are basically interested  - to engage themselves
>>
>> >                                           - to take responsibility
>>
>> >                                           - to interlink themselves
>>
>> >
>>
>> > That happens as soon as one stops to treat people like obstinate mules.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > And there exist conditions, which foster that, which support this so
>> called
>>
>> > self organisation.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Certainly open space technology, as it is practised worldwide, is an
>>
>> > excellent condition for self organisation.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > And your 'foundations' define it well.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Rather often a client spends money for an open space event, and for the
>>
>> > facilitator who proposes open space as a tool for the clients' purposes.
>>
>> > This aspect seems to be underestimated in the debate.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > In my view the facilitator is responsible to link the proposed and
>> choosen
>>
>> > form of the event, in our case open space, with the system and the
>> purpose
>>
>> > of the client. What the client pays for is not the self organisation of
>> his
>>
>> > people, that is only a beautiful side effect, and a bridge to engage
>> people
>>
>> > in the affairs of the client - and more often simultaneously in their
>> own
>>
>> > working conditions.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I cannot understand the disinterest of many open space facilitators
>> towards
>>
>> > the outcome and its linkage with the system of the client.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > That, in my eyes, is also the reason for the disinterest towards optimal
>>
>> > forms of recording the outcome - and as a visual facilitator I of course
>>
>> > propagate a visual form of protocol.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > The discussions in the os list are mainly conducted with the back to the
>>
>> > clients, and that is a pity.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > mit freundlichen Grüßen
>>
>> > best regards
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Reinhard Kuchenmüller
>>
>> >
>>
>> > VISUELLE PROTOKOLLE
>>
>> >
>>
>> > tel. +39-0566 88929
>>
>> > www.visuelle-protokolle.de
>>
>> > ________________________________________
>>
>> > Von: OSLIST [OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] im Auftrag von Artur Silva
>>
>> > [arturfsilva at YAHOO.COM]
>>
>> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. Juni 2009 18:25
>>
>> > An: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>
>> > Betreff: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Larry:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I am sorry but only today I had the time to answer you.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > We certainly need foundations or principles to Open Space.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > But I prefer the word "foundations" instead of "principles" because, due
>> to
>>
>> > the man of the hat, this word is connected forever (only) with "the 4
>>
>> > principles". And I think that that there are other principles
>> (foundations)
>>
>> > as important as, or even more important than, the 4 so called
>> principles.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Indeed I think (sorry Harrison) that the expression "The 4 principles"
>> was
>>
>> > badly chosen.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Because it they are "what always happens" they are not principles at
>> all.
>>
>> > And because we think that we must state the principles in the beginning
>> of
>>
>> > every session (I myself to that the majority o the times - but not
>> always")
>>
>> > and I am more and more convinced that they are useless. You can state
>> them
>>
>> > or nor, and the same things will occur. They are probably "one less
>> thing to
>>
>> > do/state".
>>
>> >
>>
>> > But there are other principles or foundations that are essential, in the
>>
>> > sense that if they are not present different things will happen.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > In the discussion I opened in our wiki some years ago I proposed the
>>
>> > following:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 3. I would suggest, as HO wrote in the old User’s Guide, that OST begins
>>
>> > with:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >  *   A THEME that is compelling enough, but also general and open enough
>> to
>>
>> > let people dream about and
>>
>> >  *   A GROUP OF COMMITED PEOPLE (reason for the presences to be almost
>>
>> > always voluntary)
>>
>> >  *   Enough DIVERSITY in the group
>>
>> > 4. To those foundations one can add others that are generally accepted
>> by
>>
>> > all practitioners:
>>
>> >
>>
>> >  *   The CIRCLE (even if, in some cases, some argue that a "virtual
>> circle"
>>
>> > will do)
>>
>> >  *   The Bulletin Board
>>
>> >  *   The Market Place
>>
>> >  *   The "law of two feet" (one of the most, if not the most important
>>
>> > feature, from where butterflies and bumblebees "germinate" and many
>>
>> > conflicts "evaporate")
>>
>> >  *   The "four principles" (as I have promised ;-)
>>
>> >
>>
>> > (http://www.openspaceworld.org/cgi/netwiki.cgi?FoundationsofOST)
>>
>> >
>>
>> > If I were to rewrite this today, I would surely suppress the last line.
>> But
>>
>> > all the other "foundations" (including the law of two feet) are
>> essential.
>>
>> > If you suppress one of them you will have a meeting; but not, IMHO, an
>> OST
>>
>> > meeting. But we may not talk at all about the "4 principles" and
>> everything
>>
>> > will happen as usual.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Best regrsds to all
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Artur
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > --- On Thu, 5/28/09, Larry Peterson <larry at spiritedorg.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > From: Larry Peterson <larry at spiritedorg.com>
>>
>> > Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
>>
>> > To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>
>> > Date: Thursday, May 28, 2009, 5:22 PM
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Maybe a “foundation” is another word for how I often describe the
>>
>> > “principles”.  I encourage people, when I open a space, to make some
>>
>> > assumptions about the gathering to assume what are stated as principles
>> and
>>
>> > to act on that basis during the event.  I think these only become
>> “assumed”
>>
>> > after some evolution of consciousness and I don’t experience most folks
>> in
>>
>> > organizations being there.  I think it is important to articulate them,
>> to
>>
>> > influence the “social construction” of the boundaries of the OST event
>> along
>>
>> > with the most important part – the focus question or theme.  Yep, it may
>> be
>>
>> > a bit of ritualized behaviour but I think it helps increase the
>>
>> > possibilities what will emerge in the self-organizing process that will
>>
>> > happen anyway.  Besides, I (we as facilitators) are one of the “selves”
>> in
>>
>> > the self-organization.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Larry
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Larry Peterson & Associates in Transformation
>>
>> > Toronto, Ontario, Canada
>>
>> > larry at spiritedorg.com<
>> http://us.mc546.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=larry@spi
>>
>> > ritedorg.com>   416.653.4829
>>
>> > http://www.spiritedorg.com<http://www.spiritedorg.com/>
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Artur
>>
>> > Silva
>>
>> > Sent: May-27-09 5:54 PM
>>
>> > To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>
>> > Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST - Foundations of OST?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Harrison, Larry and all:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I am afraid that I continue to read only the messages from this list
>> from
>>
>> > time to time...
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Today, I read this answer from Harrison to a reply from Larry to an
>> original
>>
>> > comment by Harrison. The 3 messages referred are listed below, and I ask
>> you
>>
>> > to first read the parts of those messages that I have transformed in
>> bold.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > (...) Thanks for having done that ;-)
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Now, I am happy that Harrison agrees that "the 4 principles and one law
>> are
>>
>> > neither laws nor principles actually" and that there will come a day
>> when
>>
>> > The Law and The Principles can be assigned to that wonderful status of
>> “One
>>
>> > more thing not to do.”
>>
>> >
>>
>> > But Larry commented, very wisely as usual, about the importance of some
>> form
>>
>> > of “boundaries” or “container” for self-organization.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > So, maybe it is the appropriate time to reintroduce a discussion that I
>> have
>>
>> > tried to introduce many moons ago, about what are the foundations of
>> OST.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I mean,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 1) if the principles are not "principles" after all, but only what
>> always
>>
>> > happens, and eventually even "one more thing not to do" (and I remember
>> you
>>
>> > that I have done some OST experiments without reference to the
>> Principles -
>>
>> > and all went well as usual), but
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 2) Some form of boundary or container is needed
>>
>> >
>>
>> > where this boundary or container does comes from?
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I have proposed to call that the "foundations" (not principles) of OST
>> and
>>
>> > proposed some ideas (that are only preliminary ideas) I would like to
>> read
>>
>> > (again) your opinions about.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > You can found my (preliminary) proposals, of some time ago, here
>>
>> > http://www.openspaceworld.org/cgi/netwiki.cgi?FoundationsofOST
>>
>> >
>>
>> > and here
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0401&L=oslist&P=R23925&I=-3&
>>
>> > X=6543D44B5D0A7C3BC4&Y=arturfsilva%40yahoo.com.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Looking forward to hear from you all
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Warn regards from a warm night in Lisbon
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Artur
>>
>> >
>>
>> > ------
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > --- On Wed, 5/27/09, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > From: Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
>>
>> > Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST
>>
>> > To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>
>> > Date: Wednesday, May 27, 2009, 7:23 AM
>>
>> > Right on Larry – and I found a very curious and embarrassing typo in my
>>
>> > small piece. I said, “They (the Principles and the Law) are descriptive
>> as
>>
>> > opposed to descriptive.” I meant to say,”They are descriptive as opposed
>> to
>>
>> > prescriptive.” Point is neither the Law nor the Principles tell you what
>> to
>>
>> > do – they simply alert everybody to what will be taking place no matter
>>
>> > what. I think that is a useful function, but it really doesn’t change a
>>
>> > thing. In short – there will come a day when The Law and The Principles
>> can
>>
>> > be assigned to that wonderful status of “One more thing not to do.”
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Harrison
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Harrison Owen
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 7808 River Falls Drive
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Potomac, Maryland   20854
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Phone 301-365-2093
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Skype hhowen
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com<
>> http://www.openspaceworld.com/>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org<
>> http://www.openspaceworld.org/>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Personal website www.ho-image.com<http://www.ho-image.com/>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
>> archives
>>
>> > Visit:
>>
>> > www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html<
>> http://listserv.boisestate.
>>
>> > edu/archives/oslist.html>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>>
>> > From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Larry
>>
>> > Peterson
>>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:44 AM
>>
>> > To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>
>> > Subject: Re: Anti Laws of OST
>>
>> >
>>
>> > For me, there is more sense in the “Principles and Law” than non-sense.
>>
>> > Stewart Kauffman explores the importance of some form of “boundaries” or
>>
>> > “container” for self-organization, particularly that of cells.  He
>> believes
>>
>> > (with strong scientific evidence) that real physical work only gets done
>>
>> > within some “boundaries” or it dissipates.  Cells, he asserts, co-create
>>
>> > their “boundaries” with their environment through self-organizing
>>
>> > relationships in every moment.  The boundaries are permeable,
>> constructs,
>>
>> > open to interchange with their environment. (No such thing as a closed
>>
>> > system!)
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Harrison, I believe you have articulated a set of socially constructed
>>
>> > permeable “boundaries” for enhancing human self-organization – including
>> the
>>
>> > focus/theme, principles and law.  These set a temporary set of
>> “boundaries”
>>
>> > or a “container” both focused and open that change the perceived
>> conditions
>>
>> > for self-organization at an event or meeting.  Self-organization is
>>
>> > happening all the time, in every moment.  Our mental maps (in practice)
>> and
>>
>> > feelings shape what we do as we self-organize – what topics we propose
>> and
>>
>> > who we connect to.  Are they necessary for self-organization (Open
>> Space) –
>>
>> > no, it is happening all the time as order emerges.  Do they (or other
>>
>> > similar statements about the social framework for our self-organizing)
>> help
>>
>> > people to self-organize in exciting and creative ways?  I think so.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Larry
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Larry Peterson & Associates in Transformation
>>
>> > Toronto, Ontario, Canada
>>
>> > larry at spiritedorg.com<
>> http://us.mc546.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=larry@spi
>>
>> > ritedorg.com>   416.653.4829
>>
>> > http://www.spiritedorg.com<http://www.spiritedorg.com/>
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of
>> Harrison
>>
>> > Owen
>>
>> > Sent: May-25-09 2:59 PM
>>
>> > To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>
>> > Subject: Re: [OSLIST] Anti Laws of OST
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Just to render the whole thing non-sensical, the 4 principles and one
>> law
>>
>> > are neither laws nor principles actually. To be honest they are just my
>> (and
>>
>> > others’) observations of what seemed to be happening in any case. In a
>> word
>>
>> > they are descriptive as opposed to descriptive – You could say it is all
>> a
>>
>> > joke. Rather like “technology” in the phrase Open Space Technology. The
>>
>> > joke, however turned out to be outrageously funny – because somehow or
>>
>> > another truth broke through. We are in serious trouble! Everybody knows
>> that
>>
>> > what happens in Open Space simply can’t happen. Unfortunately it does –
>> and
>>
>> > that makes a joke out of a whole mess of other stuff – like most of what
>> we
>>
>> > think we know about meetings, the management of meetings, and management
>>
>> > itself. Double trouble!!
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Harrison
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Harrison Owen
>>
>> >
>>
>> > 7808 River Falls Drive
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Potomac, Maryland   20854
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Phone 301-365-2093
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Skype hhowen
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com<
>> http://www.openspaceworld.com/>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org<
>> http://www.openspaceworld.org/>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Personal website www.ho-image.com<http://www.ho-image.com/>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
>> archives
>>
>> > Visit:
>>
>> > www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html<
>> http://listserv.boisestate.
>>
>> > edu/archives/oslist.html>
>>
>> >
>>
>> > .org/oslist
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > * * ==========================================================
>>
>> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To
>> subscribe,
>>
>> > unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
>>
>> > oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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>> > *
>>
>> > *
>>
>> > ==========================================================
>>
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>>
>> >  -----------------------------
>>
>> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>>
>> > view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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>>
>> > *
>>
>> > *
>>
>> > ==========================================================
>>
>> > OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>
>> > ------------------------------
>>
>> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
>>
>> > view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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>> > To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs:
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>>
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Michael M Pannwitz, boscop eg
>>
>> Draisweg 1, 12209 Berlin, Germany
>>
>> ++49-30-772 8000
>>
>> mmpanne at boscop.org
>>
>> www.boscop.org
>>
>>
>>
>> Check out the Open Space World Map presently showing 447 resident Open
>>
>> Space Workers in 71 countries working in a total of 140 countries
>> worldwide
>>
>> Have a look:
>>
>> www.openspaceworldmap.org
>>
>>
>> *
>>
>> *
>>
>> ==========================================================
>>
>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
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