re honouring each other
Suzanne Daigle
sdaigle4 at comcast.net
Tue Dec 1 05:09:27 PST 2009
Hi Justin, Improved morale.yes indeed! Thanks for the breathing room too.
Now the folks that have shown up following Michael's appeal for edits and my
Wikipedia topic posting on November 18th can thoughtfully continue the work
checking and adding the references that have been contributed, etc.
Through it all, with Michael, Larry, Harold, Jeff, Brian and others, it's
generated lots of contributions and terrific conversations on and off line.
A few gems here to give you a flavoring of it all and the caring that's
behind it,
"I'd be quite interested to help in this task, though I'm not sure we should
bow to the world of academia and follow down their infallible line of
thinking and presenting. So I'm of the opinion that we should be true to
Open Space and the truth of it, and say what we see happening, rather than
academic-ising any such documentation. As one writer (I don't know who)
said, if we keep doing things the same way as we have always done, then the
outcomes will be the same as they have always been. In Open Space, as I see
it, we are really turning the "traditional way of doing things" on its
head."
Maybe it's not such a bad thing to state the claims using objective
language, and cite source, etc. I'm sure that the spirit of Open Space can
still be well reflected in the article if the general experience can be
backed up by citations from published books and papers - or even just by
saying "advocates state X, Y, Z are benefits" and cite Harrison Owen.
Anyway, I think it's still possible to bow to convention without
surrendering Spirit.
I was saying that I thought the way through the subjective/objective
challenge was to let go of any need/desire/attempt to tell the "ost works"
or "everybody should try ost" and maybe even the "this is how to" bit of the
story. What I thought we should focus on is making the case that "open
space is."
Don't you just love this community! Honoring each others indeed!
Suzanne
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Justin T.
Sampson
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:06 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: re honouring each other
Hi Michael,
It looks really good. I've just removed the "speedy deletion" banner (which
wasn't actually a "speedy deletion" banner anyway, it was just warning that
someone *might* add a "speedy deletion" banner).
This is what I wrote on the discussion page to justify it: "I've just
updated the banners to more accurately reflect recent improvements. I think
the introduction and history are both really good now, but just need their
references turned into proper Wikipedia footnotes. The rest (older text) is
useful information, but still needs to be rewritten a bit to feel less
how-to-ish."
I don't have time to make those improvements, but hopefully the banner
changes improve morale a bit. :)
Cheers,
Justin
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Michael Herman <michael at michaelherman.com>
wrote:
whoops. that was me who missed that one, harrison. <grin>
and might you have a look at the history section on this page, as you know
the story much better than i do?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Space_Technology ...let me know if there
are things that should be added or edited, if you don't want to tweak them
directly.
if anybody else, justin??? ...who's familiar with wikipedia citation
standards and methods could take a look at this page, that would be great.
i've tried to include proper info, but i don't know how to do it correctly
in this format.
thanks.
m
--
Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates
http://www.michaelherman.com
http://www.ronanparktrail.com
http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org
http://www.openspaceworld.org
312-280-7838 (mobile)
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:
Pat said -- "even harrison has told stories about the places where he first
learned this piece or that piece of what became the practice of open space.
discovered not invented (ital mine)."
Pat I think you got it mostly right ("discovered not invented") - but I
believe it is Shaken not stirred.
Harrison
Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Drive
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Phone 301-365-2093
Skype hhowen
Open Space Training <http://www.openspaceworld.com/> www.openspaceworld.com
Open Space Institute <http://www.openspaceworld.org/>
www.openspaceworld.org
Personal website <http://www.ho-image.com/> www.ho-image.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Pat Black
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 7:09 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: re honouring each other
Thanks for this Michael. It resonates for me.
Pat Black
even harrison has told stories about the places where he first learned this
piece or that piece of what became the practice of open space. discovered
not invented.
that's what i think really distinguishes this conversation from so many
others about methods and techniques. there's a lineage here. i think the
nature of lineage is equal parts challenge and support, the outside might
look challenging but inside there is also a strong flow of support. it's
about knowing and not, the past is quite well known and oft-told, but the
future is uncertain, adapting and evolving. so the only way for lineage to
continue is to balance all of that.
it's a very active, dynamic process and if you're here, on this list,
learning quietly or contributing vocally, you're already it in. cuz in the
end, the practice isn't about the lurking or posting, learning or
contributing, it's about each of us navigating for ourselves the edge that
runs between them. no matter if you've posted or not, if you've considered
posting... or considered NOT posting to something that you would normally
have a stock answer to... then i think you're on that edge, active in this
circle and in this practice.
m
--
Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates
http://www.michaelherman.com
http://www.ronanparktrail.com
http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org
http://www.openspaceworld.org
312-280-7838 (mobile)
On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Harold Shinsato <harold at shinsato.com>
wrote:
Dear Michael M,
The "forbidding" aspect of a space with this many listeners for me had
nothing to do with the "size" of people taking up the space as it did the
pure size of the group and the number of listeners who felt like strangers.
True, the power and value of the content and the contributors raised a high
bar, but it's certainly not because it seemed to me like anyone was
"hogging" the space. If anything, this is an amazingly welcoming group for
its size and I'm certain it's because of the Open Space principles. I could
also see that questions were always warmly received and answered, but I
still felt after I joined that I'd better have a really good question to
post before I dared to do so.
It makes it a lot easier for me to post now that I've been in actual Open
Space events with a number of the active contributors. In some ways, the
OpenSpaceWorld.ning.com site also makes it easier to post - because over
there I can see a lot of your faces and it's easier to feel the humanity of
many of those posting - as well as being in smaller circle conversations.
Like they say in writing and speaking classes, know your audience. It just
takes more time with a group with 600+ listeners.
Harold
Michael M Pannwitz wrote:
Dear Michael Dobbie,
hope you have a great time in Australia and run into many of the os-workers
there! Are you facilitating os-events there or do os-related stuff? I
remember
Since I have always just simply participated in the oslist, the aspect of
being invited never came to my mind. Maybe that contributes to what Harold
(and many, as he states) perceives as "forbidding", fat guys like me taking
up the space.
The "roll call" in process did reveal to me that there are many on the list
who are mostly in the "learning" mode (as in the Law: "I honor a group with
my absence if I neither learn nor contribute. If I learn, I stay, If I
contribute, I stay. But if neither nor, I leave.")
By the way, I noticed that the email you used in your post varies from the
one in your info box in the Open Space World Map...let me know if you would
like to have it adjusted).
Greetings from Berlin
mmp
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