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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:black'>Hi Justin, Improved morale…yes indeed! Thanks for the
breathing room too. Now the folks that have shown up following
Michael’s appeal for edits and my Wikipedia topic posting on November 18<sup>th</sup>
can thoughtfully continue the work checking and adding the references that have
been contributed, etc. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:black'>Through it all, with Michael, Larry, Harold, Jeff, Brian and
others, it’s generated lots of contributions and terrific conversations on
and off line. A few gems here to give you a flavoring of it all and the
caring that’s behind it, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'>“I’d be quite interested to help in this task, though
I’m not sure we should bow to the world of academia and follow down their
infallible line of thinking and presenting. So I’m of the opinion that we
should be true to Open Space and the truth of it, and say what we see
happening, rather than academic-ising any such documentation. As one
writer (I don’t know who) said, if we keep doing things the same way as
we have always done, then the outcomes will be the same as they have always
been. In Open Space, as I see it, we are really turning the “traditional
way of doing things” on its head…”<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>Maybe it's not such a bad thing to state the claims using
objective language, and cite source, etc. I'm sure that the spirit of Open
Space can still be well reflected in the article if the general experience can
be backed up by citations from published books and papers - or even just by
saying "advocates state X, Y, Z are benefits" and cite Harrison Owen.
Anyway, I think it's still possible to bow to convention without surrendering
Spirit.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b>I was saying that I thought the way through the
subjective/objective challenge was to let go of any need/desire/attempt to tell
the "ost works" or "everybody should try ost" and maybe
even the "this is how to" bit of the story. What I thought we
should focus on is making the case that "open space is." </b><b><i><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:black'>Don’t you just love this community! Honoring each
others indeed!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:black'>Suzanne<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> OSLIST
[mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Justin T. Sampson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:06 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: re honouring each other<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi Michael,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal>It looks really good. I've just removed the "speedy
deletion" banner (which wasn't actually a "speedy deletion"
banner anyway, it was just warning that someone *might* add a "speedy
deletion" banner).<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>This is what I wrote on the discussion page to justify it:
"<span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>I've just updated the banners to more accurately reflect
recent improvements. I think the introduction and history are both really good
now, but just need their references turned into proper Wikipedia footnotes. The
rest (older text) is useful information, but still needs to be rewritten a bit
to feel less how-to-ish."</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I
don't have time to make those improvements, but hopefully the banner changes
improve morale a bit. :)</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Cheers,</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-style-span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Justin</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 7:43 AM, Michael Herman <<a
href="mailto:michael@michaelherman.com">michael@michaelherman.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>whoops. that was me who missed that one,
harrison. <grin> <br>
<br>
and might you have a look at the history section on this page, as you know the
story much better than i do?<br>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Space_Technology" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Space_Technology</a>
...let me know if there are things that should be added or edited, if you don't
want to tweak them directly. <br>
<br>
if anybody else, justin??? ...who's familiar with wikipedia citation standards
and methods could take a look at this page, that would be great. i've
tried to include proper info, but i don't know how to do it correctly in this
format.<br>
<br>
thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
m <br>
<br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
Michael Herman<br>
Michael Herman Associates<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.michaelherman.com" target="_blank">http://www.michaelherman.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.ronanparktrail.com" target="_blank">http://www.ronanparktrail.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org" target="_blank">http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org" target="_blank">http://www.openspaceworld.org</a><br>
<br>
312-280-7838 (mobile)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Harrison Owen <<a
href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net" target="_blank">hhowen@verizon.net</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>Pat said --
“even harrison has told stories about the places where he first
learned this piece or that piece of what became the practice of open
space. <i>discovered not invented</i> (ital mine).”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>Pat I think you got it
mostly right (“<i>discovered not invented”)</i> – but I
believe it is Shaken not stirred.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>Harrison</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>Harrison Owen</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>7808 River Falls Drive</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>Potomac, Maryland 20854</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>Phone 301-365-2093</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'>Skype hhowen</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:red'>Open Space Training</span><span style='color:red'> <a
href="http://www.openspaceworld.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.openspaceworld.com</span></a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:red'>Open Space Institute</span><span style='color:red'> <a
href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:
"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.openspaceworld.org</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:red'>Personal website</span><span style='color:red'> <a
href="http://www.ho-image.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.ho-image.com</span></a>
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:red'>OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the
archives Visit: </span><span style='color:red'><a
href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html" target="_blank"><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span
style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:red'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> OSLIST [mailto:<a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU"
target="_blank">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Pat
Black<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, November 29, 2009 7:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU" target="_blank">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Subject:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Re: re honouring
each other<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Thanks for this Michael. It resonates for me.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:.5in'>Pat Black<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;
margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color rgb(204, 204, 204)'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> even harrison has told stories about the places where
he first learned this piece or that piece of what became the practice of open
space. discovered not invented. <br>
<br>
that's what i think really distinguishes this conversation from so many others
about methods and techniques. there's a lineage here. i think the
nature of lineage is equal parts challenge and support, the outside might look
challenging but inside there is also a strong flow of support. it's about
knowing and not, the past is quite well known and oft-told, but the future is
uncertain, adapting and evolving. so the only way for lineage to continue
is to balance all of that. <br>
<br>
it's a very active, dynamic process and if you're here, on this list, learning
quietly or contributing vocally, you're already it in. cuz in the end,
the practice isn't about the lurking or posting, learning or contributing, it's
about each of us navigating for ourselves the edge that runs between
them. no matter if you've posted or not, if you've considered posting...
or considered NOT posting to something that you would normally have a stock
answer to... then i think you're on that edge, active in this circle and in
this practice. <br clear=all>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:.5in'><br>
m<br>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
Michael Herman<br>
Michael Herman Associates<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.michaelherman.com" target="_blank">http://www.michaelherman.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.ronanparktrail.com" target="_blank">http://www.ronanparktrail.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org" target="_blank">http://www.chicagoconservationcorps.org</a><br>
<a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org" target="_blank">http://www.openspaceworld.org</a><br>
<br>
312-280-7838 (mobile)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Harold Shinsato <<a
href="mailto:harold@shinsato.com" target="_blank">harold@shinsato.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Dear Michael M,<br>
<br>
The "forbidding" aspect of a space with this many listeners for me
had nothing to do with the "size" of people taking up the space as it
did the pure size of the group and the number of listeners who felt like
strangers. True, the power and value of the content and the contributors raised
a high bar, but it's certainly not because it seemed to me like anyone was
"hogging" the space. If anything, this is an amazingly welcoming
group for its size and I'm certain it's because of the Open Space principles. I
could also see that questions were always warmly received and answered, but I
still felt after I joined that I'd better have a really good question to post
before I dared to do so.<br>
<br>
It makes it a lot easier for me to post now that I've been in actual Open Space
events with a number of the active contributors. In some ways, the <a
href="http://OpenSpaceWorld.ning.com" target="_blank">OpenSpaceWorld.ning.com</a>
site also makes it easier to post - because over there I can see a lot of your
faces and it's easier to feel the humanity of many of those posting - as well
as being in smaller circle conversations. Like they say in writing and speaking
classes, know your audience. It just takes more time with a group with 600+
listeners.<br>
<span style='color:#888888'><br>
Harold</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'><br>
<br>
Michael M Pannwitz wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>Dear Michael Dobbie,<br>
hope you have a great time in Australia and run into many of the os-workers
there! Are you facilitating os-events there or do os-related stuff? I remember<br>
Since I have always just simply participated in the oslist, the aspect of being
invited never came to my mind. Maybe that contributes to what Harold (and many,
as he states) perceives as "forbidding", fat guys like me taking up
the space.<br>
The "roll call" in process did reveal to me that there are many on
the list who are mostly in the "learning" mode (as in the Law:
"I honor a group with my absence if I neither learn nor contribute. If I
learn, I stay, If I contribute, I stay. But if neither nor, I leave.")<br>
By the way, I noticed that the email you used in your post varies from the one
in your info box in the Open Space World Map...let me know if you would like to
have it adjusted).<br>
Greetings from Berlin<br>
mmp <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>*<br>
*<br>
==========================================================<br>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:.5in'>* *
========================================================== <a
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</blockquote>
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