How many break-out spaces

Thu Aug 21 13:33:57 PDT 2008

I'm not sure I see OST process of combining sessions as a consensus process,
unless you mean the consensus of the two (or more) session conveners.  The
rest of the group doesn't get a say because they're not the ones convening
those sessions.  No one except the conveners actually knows what the
conveners are trying to do with a particular session, you know?  Why should
they get a say?

On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Neils Christiansen
<nchristn at sunwave.net>wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> It seems to me the clustering of cards Harrison refers to was done by the
> "ICA style" facilitator. If that is so, the process was not ICA's
> Participation Technology. In the ICA process, the participants do the
> clustering: 1) A participant suggests a possible pairing or the addition of
> a card to an existing cluster and states the relationship between the cards
> that underlies his or her suggestion. 2) Any other participant may indicate
> that the suggested pairing or addition to an existing cluster does not work
> for them, in which case the suggestion is dropped. 3) If the suggestion
> makes sense to the other participants, that is, there are no objections,
> then and only then does the facilitator move the cards into a pair or add to
> an existing cluster. As the clustering progresses and the group's sense of
> the underlying structure firms up, participants often modify the clusters;
> it is the group sense of relationships that counts.
>
> I have seen times where the facilitator "suggests" a pairing or addition
> when the relationship seems obvious (exact duplicate cards are an example).
> However, if the facilitator uses his or her sense of which cards go
> together, it is not the ICA process precisely because it is not
> participatory, but hierarchal.
>
> An OS "marketplace" follows exactly the same principles. However, in place
> of a facilitator standing in front of a group of seated participants and
> following their directions about clustering (perhaps with clarifying
> questions), the OS participants carry out the process on their feet by
> choosing "cards" they wish to pursue including the possibility of combining
> "cards" into clusters of people with similar interests.
>
> The clustering process in both cases arrives at a consensus. I found both
> Bui's and Harrison's descriptions of consensus very helpful. Bui's quoted
> definition is an attempt to describe, in detail, the conditions that foster
> consensus. It is the sort of description a novice "facilitator of consensus"
> might study at length while pondering about how to foster those conditions
> in practice. Harrison's description forgoes all that detail in favour of an
> intuitive sense of "what seems right". It is the statement of a seasoned
> practitioner. However, I suspect behind Harrison's sense of what seems right
> lies a strong belief in the value of trust, respect, etc. If it were not so,
> the OS he "discovered" might have looked more like an operation manual for
> Dackow rather than the participatory process that has inspired so many.
>
> Neils Christiansen
>
> Harrison Owen wrote:
>
>>
>> Shikha – You are not very far from that old question of "Optimal Group
>> Size." Some said six. Some say 12. . . My own experience is that the optimal
>> size is whatever works, and that depends… I have seen groups of 3 that were
>> a disaster and groups of 70 that were marvels of inclusion and
>> communication. My conclusion: Only the people can tell, and figuring groups
>> size is one more thing I don't have to do. I guess I would put "clustering
>> cards" under the same heading. I know the people who do what I think is
>> called Participatory Technology, developed by ICA – do that, but every time
>> I found myself in one of their gatherings it seemed to me that it all took
>> much too long and never came out "right" anyhow, for the simple reason that
>> only the people knew the issues well enough to know what went with which.
>>
>> Harrison
>>
>> Harrison Owen
>>
>> 189 Beaucaire Ave
>>
>> Camden, ME 04843
>>
>> 207-763-3261 (Summer)
>>
>> 301-365-2093 (Winter)
>>
>> Website www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com>
>>
>> Personal Website www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com>
>>
>> OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options
>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] *On Behalf Of
>> *Shikha Shrestha
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:34 PM
>> *To:* OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
>> *Subject:* Re: How many break-out spaces
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I feel that it is hard for us to determine the number of participants, as
>> the people themselves choose the group they want to join in. The number of
>> groups that we can manage at one time slot depends on our venue, how much
>> groups that can be managed. We do not need very formal space but just a
>> space for people to talk and share. In most cases, having at least table or
>> flipchart is helpful to write their notes and that is visible to all in the
>> group. It is not mandatory though!
>>
>> In the number of people in each group, I also agree that 5-6 people per
>> group is the best but as facilitator we cannot determine the number so i
>> suggest you not be worried and let the session be chaotic so that people
>> feel the warmth of informality and do feel comfortable in sharing.
>>
>> In some cases, if there are too many cards than we can handle but I tried
>> using the method of clustering the uniform cards together. But, we should be
>> very much careful in not clustering the cards that are not similar or carry
>> different meaning. It is only the last thing that can be done.
>>
>> Hope it helps,
>>
>> Shikha
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:48 AM, ashley cooper <
>> mail.easilyamazed at gmail.com <mailto:mail.easilyamazed at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Doc and Harrison.
>>
>> So all we have to do is remember to KISS every experience we have. I love
>> it!
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net<mailto:
>> hhowen at verizon.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Spaces – my rule of thumb is 5 (SPACES) per 100 people. Same ratio for
>> computers. KISS. Keep it simple S… Something I can remember and it always
>> seems to work.
>>
>> ho
>>
>> Harrison Owen
>>
>> 189 Beaucaire Ave
>>
>> Camden, ME 04843
>>
>> 207-763-3261 (Summer)
>>
>> 301-365-2093 (Winter)
>>
>> Website www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com>
>>
>> Personal Website www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com>
>>
>> OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options
>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU <mailto:
>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>] *On Behalf Of *Tenneson Woolf
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 20, 2008 10:49 AM
>>
>>
>> *To:* OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU <mailto:
>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: How many break-out spaces
>>
>> Hey Ashley,
>>
>> My experience is one for every 5-6 people. If the group is small, 12ish, I
>> have a few more. If the group is large, for me 120ish, I have a few less.
>> And, I just invite people to create another space if we run out. I'm always
>> happy to observe that when topics are called from that place of passion and
>> responsibility, walls in breakout rooms become less important. Corners of
>> rooms work fine.
>>
>> I wonder what you've learned, the Ashley formula?
>>
>> Hugs.
>>
>> /Tenneson Woolf/
>>
>> Lindon, Utah USA
>>
>> tenneson at berkana.org <mailto:tenneson at berkana.org>
>>
>> skype: tenneson_woolf
>>
>> 801 785 2276
>>
>> 801 376 2213 Cell
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU <mailto:
>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>] *On Behalf Of *ashley cooper
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 20, 2008 7:53 AM
>> *To:* OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU <mailto:
>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
>> *Subject:* How many break-out spaces
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I still haven't mastered the ease of searching our archives... so please
>> forgive my repetition.
>>
>> Do you use a 'formula' for estimating out how many break-out areas based
>> on the number of participants?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Ashley
>>
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