How many break-out spaces
Neils Christiansen
nchristn at sunwave.net
Thu Aug 21 17:52:04 PDT 2008
Ted,
Thanks for your clarifying question. I did mean a consensus among those
in two or more proposed sessions, not the entire group of participants.
However, I would argue that_ once the sessions are listed on the wall_,
all those interested in participating in the sessions being considered
for grouping should have a say, not just the two or more original
session proponents. Of course, if some want to group and some not, the
law of two feet can lead to both grouped and ungrouped sessions.
I should probably emphasize that I was _not _suggesting that the ICA
process be used by the entire group of OS participants to cluster
sessions. In general, that would be inappropriate, as you point out.
However, if the results of the various sessions are interdependent to
such a degree that all participants have a vested interest in the
developments of every session, then everyone should have a say. That is
not the case in the OSs with which I am familiar. However, such
situations do occur. I have worked in situations where every
participant is highly concerned with all the details of the overall
plan. In those situations I have used the ICA process to define tasks,
budgets, etc.
Neils Christiansen
Ted Ernst wrote:
> I'm not sure I see OST process of combining sessions as a consensus
> process, unless you mean the consensus of the two (or more) session
> conveners. The rest of the group doesn't get a say because they're
> not the ones convening those sessions. No one except the conveners
> actually knows what the conveners are trying to do with a particular
> session, you know? Why should they get a say?
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Neils Christiansen
> <nchristn at sunwave.net <mailto:nchristn at sunwave.net>> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> It seems to me the clustering of cards Harrison refers to was done
> by the "ICA style" facilitator. If that is so, the process was not
> ICA's Participation Technology. In the ICA process, the
> participants do the clustering: 1) A participant suggests a
> possible pairing or the addition of a card to an existing cluster
> and states the relationship between the cards that underlies his
> or her suggestion. 2) Any other participant may indicate that the
> suggested pairing or addition to an existing cluster does not work
> for them, in which case the suggestion is dropped. 3) If the
> suggestion makes sense to the other participants, that is, there
> are no objections, then and only then does the facilitator move
> the cards into a pair or add to an existing cluster. As the
> clustering progresses and the group's sense of the underlying
> structure firms up, participants often modify the clusters; it is
> the group sense of relationships that counts.
>
> I have seen times where the facilitator "suggests" a pairing or
> addition when the relationship seems obvious (exact duplicate
> cards are an example). However, if the facilitator uses his or her
> sense of which cards go together, it is not the ICA process
> precisely because it is not participatory, but hierarchal.
>
> An OS "marketplace" follows exactly the same principles. However,
> in place of a facilitator standing in front of a group of seated
> participants and following their directions about clustering
> (perhaps with clarifying questions), the OS participants carry out
> the process on their feet by choosing "cards" they wish to pursue
> including the possibility of combining "cards" into clusters of
> people with similar interests.
>
> The clustering process in both cases arrives at a consensus. I
> found both Bui's and Harrison's descriptions of consensus very
> helpful. Bui's quoted definition is an attempt to describe, in
> detail, the conditions that foster consensus. It is the sort of
> description a novice "facilitator of consensus" might study at
> length while pondering about how to foster those conditions in
> practice. Harrison's description forgoes all that detail in favour
> of an intuitive sense of "what seems right". It is the statement
> of a seasoned practitioner. However, I suspect behind Harrison's
> sense of what seems right lies a strong belief in the value of
> trust, respect, etc. If it were not so, the OS he "discovered"
> might have looked more like an operation manual for Dackow rather
> than the participatory process that has inspired so many.
>
> Neils Christiansen
>
> Harrison Owen wrote:
>
>
> Shikha – You are not very far from that old question of
> "Optimal Group Size." Some said six. Some say 12. . . My own
> experience is that the optimal size is whatever works, and
> that depends… I have seen groups of 3 that were a disaster and
> groups of 70 that were marvels of inclusion and communication.
> My conclusion: Only the people can tell, and figuring groups
> size is one more thing I don't have to do. I guess I would put
> "clustering cards" under the same heading. I know the people
> who do what I think is called Participatory Technology,
> developed by ICA – do that, but every time I found myself in
> one of their gatherings it seemed to me that it all took much
> too long and never came out "right" anyhow, for the simple
> reason that only the people knew the issues well enough to
> know what went with which.
>
> Harrison
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 189 Beaucaire Ave
>
> Camden, ME 04843
>
> 207-763-3261 (Summer)
>
> 301-365-2093 (Winter)
>
> Website www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com>
> <http://www.openspaceworld.com>
>
> Personal Website www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com>
> <http://www.ho-image.com>
>
>
> OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>] *On Behalf Of *Shikha
> Shrestha
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 20, 2008 11:34 PM
> *To:* OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> *Subject:* Re: How many break-out spaces
>
> Hi,
>
> I feel that it is hard for us to determine the number of
> participants, as the people themselves choose the group they
> want to join in. The number of groups that we can manage at
> one time slot depends on our venue, how much groups that can
> be managed. We do not need very formal space but just a space
> for people to talk and share. In most cases, having at least
> table or flipchart is helpful to write their notes and that is
> visible to all in the group. It is not mandatory though!
>
> In the number of people in each group, I also agree that 5-6
> people per group is the best but as facilitator we cannot
> determine the number so i suggest you not be worried and let
> the session be chaotic so that people feel the warmth of
> informality and do feel comfortable in sharing.
>
> In some cases, if there are too many cards than we can handle
> but I tried using the method of clustering the uniform cards
> together. But, we should be very much careful in not
> clustering the cards that are not similar or carry different
> meaning. It is only the last thing that can be done.
>
> Hope it helps,
>
> Shikha
>
> On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 2:48 AM, ashley cooper
> <mail.easilyamazed at gmail.com
> <mailto:mail.easilyamazed at gmail.com>
> <mailto:mail.easilyamazed at gmail.com
> <mailto:mail.easilyamazed at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>
> Thanks Doc and Harrison.
>
> So all we have to do is remember to KISS every experience we
> have. I love it!
>
> On Wed, Aug 20, 2008 at 3:53 PM, Harrison Owen
> <hhowen at verizon.net <mailto:hhowen at verizon.net>
> <mailto:hhowen at verizon.net <mailto:hhowen at verizon.net>>> wrote:
>
> Spaces – my rule of thumb is 5 (SPACES) per 100 people. Same
> ratio for computers. KISS. Keep it simple S… Something I can
> remember and it always seems to work.
>
> ho
>
> Harrison Owen
>
> 189 Beaucaire Ave
>
> Camden, ME 04843
>
> 207-763-3261 (Summer)
>
> 301-365-2093 (Winter)
>
> Website www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com>
> <http://www.openspaceworld.com>
>
> Personal Website www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com>
> <http://www.ho-image.com>
>
>
> OSLIST To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options
> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>>] *On Behalf Of
> *Tenneson Woolf
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 20, 2008 10:49 AM
>
>
> *To:* OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>>
>
> *Subject:* Re: How many break-out spaces
>
>
> Hey Ashley,
>
> My experience is one for every 5-6 people. If the group is
> small, 12ish, I have a few more. If the group is large, for me
> 120ish, I have a few less. And, I just invite people to create
> another space if we run out. I'm always happy to observe that
> when topics are called from that place of passion and
> responsibility, walls in breakout rooms become less important.
> Corners of rooms work fine.
>
> I wonder what you've learned, the Ashley formula?
>
> Hugs.
>
> /Tenneson Woolf/
>
> Lindon, Utah USA
>
> tenneson at berkana.org <mailto:tenneson at berkana.org>
> <mailto:tenneson at berkana.org <mailto:tenneson at berkana.org>>
>
>
> skype: tenneson_woolf
>
> 801 785 2276
>
> 801 376 2213 Cell
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>>] *On Behalf Of
> *ashley cooper
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 20, 2008 7:53 AM
> *To:* OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> <mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>>
> *Subject:* How many break-out spaces
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I still haven't mastered the ease of searching our archives...
> so please forgive my repetition.
>
> Do you use a 'formula' for estimating out how many break-out
> areas based on the number of participants?
>
> Thanks,
> Ashley
>
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