whatever happens...
Arno Baltin
arno at tlu.ee
Wed May 9 12:34:31 PDT 2007
Dear Gabriela, and others,
In Estonian the printciple is translated so that "what ever happens" is
understood as something that will happen in future (although we dont
have grammatical future). At the same time "happens" has in everyday use
mostly negative connotation. When a child comes to parent with unhappy
face, the parent will probably ask "what happened?". Or there is a
saying "we will be friends whatever happens". So when people first time
hear the principle of "what ever happens" in OS it sounds a bit like a
warning that things might go "wrong" but there is still no need to worry
about it. If in English "happens" and "happy" sounds quite similar (at
least to foreigners ear) then in Estonian closest association with
"happens" is "accident".
with best regards,
Arno
Gabriela Ender wrote:
> Dear John, and others,
>
> I want to come back to your wonderful thoughts regarding this
> principle because I like the way you have been experimenting in
> Haitian Creole and in English with very much: "*What Happens is what
> happens - learn and move forward."*
>
> And you have added: "This principle helps us to not lament over
> should'ves, to not wallow in regrets. We're all responsible for how we
> use our time and space together during this meeting. Let's assume that
> responsibility and be prepared to accept what happens and to
> continually strive to learn and to keep moving forward."
>
> I totally agree and I like they way you describe it!
>
> I have a question. Would it be also okay to say: "*What happened is
> what happened - learn and move forward*." ? I mean "What happened is
> what happened" (it is past - so we cannot change it anymore) and
> "learn and move forward." is present ... with responsibility in my/our
> "here and now".
> "What happens is what happens" sounds for me (as a foreign English
> speaking person) like it is the present and for "here and now" we are
> responsible ... how we use our time. Therefore I think that
> changing the first part of this principle variant "into past" could
> express the "when its over its over" in it a bit better and would make
> a distinction to present and concsious responsibilty.
> I would appreciate your and the opinion from others a lot. Thank you
> very much!
>
> Warmly,
> Gabriela
> * * ==========================================================
> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To
> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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>From Wed May 9 17:48:59 2007
Message-Id: <WED.9.MAY.2007.174859.0400.>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 17:48:59 -0400
Reply-To: hhowen at verizon.net
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
Organization: HH Owen and Co.
Subject: Re: whatever happens...
In-Reply-To: <05f001c79252$8f0c73c0$6402a8c0 at pc01>
MIME-version: 1.0
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Gabriela, you may disappear down an endless rabbit hole of semantic (not =
to
mention grammatical) obfuscation and confusion! I think the real point =
is
the meaning, no matter the words. And given the number of languages that =
OS
has wandered into - the words must be infinite! And who knows what the
"right" ones are??? For myself the phrase, "Whatever happens is the only
thing that could have" - just came out that way. No particular thought =
on
the subject, it just felt right. And over the years it still feels right =
-
but the MEANING (for me) is -
=20
The past is over, the future hasn't happened yet. All we have is NOW. =
The
could-have-beens, might-have-beens, should-have-beens are all =
(presumably)
interesting but also basically irrelevant to our present opportunities =
Now.
Now is where our passion must be focused, and Now is where =
responsibility
must be taken. All the rest is abstract, theoretical, and definitely NOT
NOW! Or something :-)
=20
And then, of course, if you want to get into some interesting =
philosophical,
esoteric, not to say weird waters, you might ask yourself - How Big is =
Now?
Could be a very small Now, in which case the opportunities and the
responsibilities of infinitesimal. On the other hand, that NOW could be =
huge
- like the whole Cosmos. Talk about opportunity and responsibility! =
Boggles
the mind! Probably not worth thinking about!!
=20
Harrison
=20
Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Drive
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Phone 301-365-2093
Skype hhowen
Open Space Training <http://www.openspaceworld.com/> =
www.openspaceworld.com
Open Space Institute <http://www.openspaceworld.org/>
www.openspaceworld.org
Personal website <http://www.ho-image.com/> www.ho-image.com=20
OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the =
archives
Visit: <http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html>
www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of =
Gabriela
Ender
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 11:56 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: whatever happens...
=20
Dear John, and others,
I want to come back to your wonderful thoughts regarding this principle
because I like the way you have been experimenting in Haitian Creole and =
in
English with very much: "What Happens is what happens - learn and move
forward."
=20
And you have added: "This principle helps us to not lament over =
should'ves,
to not wallow in regrets. We're all responsible for how we use our time =
and
space together during this meeting. Let's assume that responsibility and =
be
prepared to accept what happens and to continually strive to learn and =
to
keep moving forward."
=20
I totally agree and I like they way you describe it!
=20
I have a question. Would it be also okay to say: "What happened is what
happened - learn and move forward." ? I mean "What happened is what
happened" (it is past - so we cannot change it anymore) and "learn and =
move
forward." is present ... with responsibility in my/our "here and now".
"What happens is what happens" sounds for me (as a foreign English =
speaking
person) like it is the present and for "here and now" we are responsible =
...
how we use our time. Therefore I think that changing the first part of =
this
principle variant "into past" could express the "when its over its over" =
in
it a bit better and would make a distinction to present and concsious
responsibilty.
I would appreciate your and the opinion from others a lot. Thank you =
very
much!
Warmly,
Gabriela
* * =
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oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:
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<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dred face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Gabriela, you may disappear down an =
endless
rabbit hole of semantic (not to mention grammatical) obfuscation and =
confusion!
I think the real point is the meaning, no matter the words. And given =
the
number of languages that OS has wandered into – the words must be
infinite! And who knows what the “right” ones are??? For =
myself the
phrase, “Whatever happens is the only thing that could have” =
–
just came out that way. No particular thought on the subject, it just =
felt
right. And over the years it still feels right – but the MEANING =
(for me)
is –</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dred face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dred face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>The past is over, the future =
hasn’t
happened yet. All we have is NOW. The could-have-beens, =
might-have-beens,
should-have-beens are all (presumably) interesting but also basically
irrelevant to our present opportunities Now. Now is where our passion =
must be
focused, and Now is where responsibility must be taken. All the rest is =
abstract,
theoretical, and definitely NOT NOW! Or something </span></font><font
color=3Dred face=3DWingdings><span =
style=3D'font-family:Wingdings;color:red'>J</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dred face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dred face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>And then, of course, if you want to =
get
into some interesting philosophical, esoteric, not to say weird waters, =
you might
ask yourself – How Big is Now? Could be a very small Now, in which =
case
the opportunities and the responsibilities of infinitesimal. On the =
other hand,
that NOW could be huge – like the whole Cosmos. Talk about =
opportunity
and responsibility! Boggles the mind! Probably not worth thinking =
about!!</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dred face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dred face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Harrison</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dred face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D2 color=3Dred =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Harrison =
Owen</span></font></p>
<p align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D2 color=3Dred =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>7808 River Falls =
Drive</span></font></p>
<p align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D2 color=3Dred =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Potomac,
Maryland 20854</span></font></p>
<p align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D2 color=3Dred =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Phone =
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dred face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:red'>301-365-2093</span></font></p>
<p align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D2 color=3Dred =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Skype =
hhowen</span></font></p>
<p align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D3 color=3Dred =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Open Space =
Training</span></font><font
color=3Dred><span style=3D'color:red'> <a =
href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.com/"><font
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial'>www.openspaceworld.com</span></font></a>
</span></font></p>
<p align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D3 color=3Dred =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Open Space =
Institute</span></font><font
color=3Dred><span style=3D'color:red'> <a =
href=3D"http://www.openspaceworld.org/"><font
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial'>www.openspaceworld.org</span></font></a></spa=
n></font></p>
<p align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D3 color=3Dred =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>Personal =
website</span></font><font
color=3Dred><span style=3D'color:red'> <a =
href=3D"http://www.ho-image.com/"><font
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial'>www.ho-image.com</span></font></a> =
</span></font></p>
<p align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font size=3D3 color=3Dred =
face=3DArial><span
=
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:red'>OSLIST</span></fon=
t><font
color=3Dred face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-family:Arial;color:red'>: =
To subscribe,
unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit: =
</span></font><font
color=3Dred><span style=3D'color:red'><a
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<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> OSLIST
[mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf
Of </span></b>Gabriela Ender<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, May 09, =
2007
11:56 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: whatever =
happens...</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Trebuchet MS"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS";
color:navy'>Dear John, and others,<br>
<br>
I want to come back to your wonderful thoughts regarding this principle =
because
I like the way you have been experimenting in Haitian Creole and in =
English
with very much: "<strong><b><font face=3D"Trebuchet MS"><span
style=3D'font-family:"Trebuchet MS"'>What Happens is what happens - =
learn and
move forward."</span></font></b></strong></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Trebuchet MS"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS";
color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Trebuchet MS"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS";
color:navy'>And you have added: "This principle helps us to not =
lament
over should'ves, to not wallow in regrets. We're all responsible for how =
we use
our time and space together during this meeting. Let's assume that
responsibility and be prepared to accept what happens and to continually =
strive
to learn and to keep moving forward."</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Trebuchet MS"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS";
color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Trebuchet MS"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS";
color:navy'>I totally agree and I like they way you describe =
it!</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Trebuchet MS"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS";
color:navy'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Trebuchet MS"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS";
color:navy'>I have a question. Would it be also okay to say: =
"<strong><b><font
face=3D"Trebuchet MS"><span style=3D'font-family:"Trebuchet MS"'>What =
happened is
what happened - learn and move forward</span></font></b></strong>."
? I mean "What happened is what happened" (it is past - =
so we
cannot change it anymore) and "learn and move forward." is =
present
... with responsibility in my/our "here and =
now".</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Trebuchet MS"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS";
color:navy'>"What happens is what happens" sounds for =
me (as a
foreign English speaking person) like it is the present and for =
"here and
now" we are responsible ... how we use our time. Therefore I think =
that
changing the first part of this principle variant "into =
past"
could express the "when its over its over" in it a bit better =
and
would make a distinction to present and concsious =
responsibilty.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Trebuchet MS"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS";
color:navy'>I would appreciate your and the opinion from others a lot. =
Thank
you very much!<br>
<br>
Warmly,</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dnavy
face=3D"Trebuchet MS"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Trebuchet MS";
color:navy'>Gabriela</span></font></p>
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------=_NextPart_000_0029_01C79262.562F76F0--
>From Wed May 9 17:02:19 2007
Message-Id: <WED.9.MAY.2007.170219.0700.>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 17:02:19 -0700
Reply-To: john at johnengle.net
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: John Engle <john at johnengle.net>
Subject: Re: whatever happens...w/ World Bank
In-Reply-To: <002801c79283$dd4116f0$6400a8c0 at harrison>
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Hi Raffi, Gabriela and everyone.
Several hours ago we finished an open space with about 350 World Bank employees who are part of their worldwide communications network. It started Monday, following several keynotes and a resignation in real time of an aid to President Wolfowitz. Interesting times. The aid came and announced it between keynotes Monday morning.
Brian Bainbridge facilitated this event last year. A hard act to follow is an understatement. Many asked about you Brian, and say hello. They loved you, as you well know. You're a legend with the World Bank and if it wasn't that Australia is so far away from Washington DC and that the Bank is cutting budgets left and right, it would've been you there again this year facilitating this event. I'm stating what you already know but just providing to others some background as to why I was there.
I just read Harrison's words about the "whatever happens" issue and am feeling humbled in the same way that I've been feeling humbled by working with a group that Brian Bainbridge has worked with. I LOVE reading your words, Harrison. And when I read them, I'm lucky enough to be able to picture and hear you saying them. People today told me how Brian concluded the meeting and how they appreciated it.
In Haitian Creole one would say, "Se yon lot nivo," to describe the approach of the sajes in our network as compared to people like me. "Se yon lot nivo" translates roughly to "It's another level." ... "It's not the same."
I can learn from Harrison and Brian and other sajes in this network. And how grateful I am that you are so willing to share! But ultimately, I have to come up with what works for me. I have to discover my path. Just because certain things work well for the sajes does not mean that they will work for me. I can't assume authority that I don't have.
In practical terms, this means this means that I have to be very concise. The interest and attention that people have for words from sajes is not the same that they will have for me as a 43 year old. As I see it, I need to give some concise explanation and guidance and get out of the way before people get bored. Or before, as someone from a Latin American country said today, it becomes, "Blah, blah, blah." She shared that she appreciated my approach and that my words stimulated reflection but did not become "bla, bla, bla."
I find myself trying to capture the essence of what our sajes say and how they do it while looking at the advice of others on this list who might be more at my "nivo" or level of experience with open space and leadership. It's fun looking at both and discerning what feels right for me. It's all guesswork.
Based on input I received from the list (and you will notice that it comes directly from a number of you), this is how I explained the principle. The sign I used corresponded.
"Whatever happens is the only thing that did - learn and move forward.
This principle helps us not to lament over should haves or wallow in regrets. We’re all responsible for how we use our time and space together during this meeting. WE DO OUR BEST. That´s what we can do, THEN – whatever happens happens. We´d better accept it – learn and move forward."
With deep gratitude and welcoming more comments,
John
ps pictures from world bank open space:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/32347704@N00/sets/72157600188602552/
Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote: Gabriela, you may disappear down an endless rabbit hole of semantic (not to mention grammatical) obfuscation and confusion! I think the real point is the meaning, no matter the words. And given the number of languages that OS has wandered into – the words must be infinite! And who knows what the “right†ones are??? For myself the phrase, “Whatever happens is the only thing that could have†– just came out that way. No particular thought on the subject, it just felt right. And over the years it still feels right – but the MEANING (for me) is –
The past is over, the future hasn’t happened yet. All we have is NOW. The could-have-beens, might-have-beens, should-have-beens are all (presumably) interesting but also basically irrelevant to our present opportunities Now. Now is where our passion must be focused, and Now is where responsibility must be taken. All the rest is abstract, theoretical, and definitely NOT NOW! Or something J
And then, of course, if you want to get into some interesting philosophical, esoteric, not to say weird waters, you might ask yourself – How Big is Now? Could be a very small Now, in which case the opportunities and the responsibilities of infinitesimal. On the other hand, that NOW could be huge – like the whole Cosmos. Talk about opportunity and responsibility! Boggles the mind! Probably not worth thinking about!!
Harrison
Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Drive
Potomac, Maryland 20854
Phone 301-365-2093
Skype hhowen
Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
Personal website www.ho-image.com
OSLIST: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit: www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Gabriela Ender
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 11:56 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: whatever happens...
Dear John, and others,
I want to come back to your wonderful thoughts regarding this principle because I like the way you have been experimenting in Haitian Creole and in English with very much: "What Happens is what happens - learn and move forward."
And you have added: "This principle helps us to not lament over should'ves, to not wallow in regrets. We're all responsible for how we use our time and space together during this meeting. Let's assume that responsibility and be prepared to accept what happens and to continually strive to learn and to keep moving forward."
I totally agree and I like they way you describe it!
I have a question. Would it be also okay to say: "What happened is what happened - learn and move forward." ? I mean "What happened is what happened" (it is past - so we cannot change it anymore) and "learn and move forward." is present ... with responsibility in my/our "here and now".
"What happens is what happens" sounds for me (as a foreign English speaking person) like it is the present and for "here and now" we are responsible ... how we use our time. Therefore I think that changing the first part of this principle variant "into past" could express the "when its over its over" in it a bit better and would make a distinction to present and concsious responsibilty.
I would appreciate your and the opinion from others a lot. Thank you very much!
Warmly,
Gabriela
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www.johnengle.net Open space facilitation
www.circlesofchange.com Participatory learning and leadership
www.harvesttime.cc Harvesting for justice that all may have enough
telephone Haiti: 509-461-3067
email: john at johnengle.net
telephone: 202-236-6532
fax: 202-449-8343
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P.O. Box 337
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Hi Raffi, Gabriela and everyone.<br><br>Several hours ago we finished an open space with about 350 World Bank employees who are part of their worldwide communications network. It started Monday, following several keynotes and a resignation in real time of an aid to President Wolfowitz. Interesting times. The aid came and announced it between keynotes Monday morning.<br><br>Brian Bainbridge facilitated this event last year. A hard act to follow is an understatement. Many asked about you Brian, and say hello. They loved you, as you well know. You're a legend with the World Bank and if it wasn't that Australia is so far away from Washington DC and that the Bank is cutting budgets left and right, it would've been you there again this year facilitating this event. I'm stating what you already know but just providing to others some background as to why I was there.<br><br>I just read Harrison's words about the "whatever happens" issue and am feeling humbled in the same way
that I've been feeling humbled by working with a group that Brian Bainbridge has worked with. I LOVE reading your words, Harrison. And when I read them, I'm lucky enough to be able to picture and hear you saying them. People today told me how Brian concluded the meeting and how they appreciated it.<br><br>In Haitian Creole one would say, "Se yon lot nivo," to describe the approach of the sajes in our network as compared to people like me. "Se yon lot nivo" translates roughly to "It's another level." ... "It's not the same."<br><br>I can learn from Harrison and Brian and other sajes in this network. And how grateful I am that you are so willing to share! But ultimately, I have to come up with what works for me. I have to discover my path. Just because certain things work well for the sajes does not mean that they will work for me. I can't assume authority that I don't have. <br><br>In practical terms, this means this means that I have to be very concise. The interest and
attention that people have for words from sajes is not the same that they will have for me as a 43 year old. As I see it, I need to give some concise explanation and guidance and get out of the way before people get bored. Or before, as someone from a Latin American country said today, it becomes, "Blah, blah, blah." She shared that she appreciated my approach and that my words stimulated reflection but did not become "bla, bla, bla."<br><br>I find myself trying to capture the essence of what our sajes say and how they do it while looking at the advice of others on this list who might be more at my "nivo" or level of experience with open space and leadership. It's fun looking at both and discerning what feels right for me. It's all guesswork.<br><br>Based on input I received from the list (and you will notice that it comes directly from a number of you), this is how I explained the principle. The sign I used corresponded.<br><br>"Whatever happens is the only thing that did
- learn and move forward.<br>This principle helps us not to lament over should haves or wallow in regrets. We’re all responsible for how we use our time and space together during this meeting. WE DO OUR BEST. That´s what we can do, THEN – whatever happens happens. We´d better accept it – learn and move forward."<br><br>With deep gratitude and welcoming more comments,<br><br>John <br> ps pictures from world bank open space: <br><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/32347704@N00/sets/72157600188602552/">http://www.flickr.com/photos/32347704@N00/sets/72157600188602552/</a><br><br><br><br><b><i>Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)"> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face
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class="MsoNormal"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Gabriela, you may disappear down an endless rabbit hole of semantic (not to mention grammatical) obfuscation and confusion! I think the real point is the meaning, no matter the words. And given the number of languages that OS has wandered into – the words must be infinite! And who knows what the “right†ones are??? For myself the phrase, “Whatever happens is the only thing that could have†– just came out that way. No particular thought on the subject, it just felt right. And over the years it still feels right – but the MEANING (for me) is –</span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;"> </span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color:
red;">The past is over, the future hasn’t happened yet. All we have is NOW. The could-have-beens, might-have-beens, should-have-beens are all (presumably) interesting but also basically irrelevant to our present opportunities Now. Now is where our passion must be focused, and Now is where responsibility must be taken. All the rest is abstract, theoretical, and definitely NOT NOW! Or something </span></font><font color="red" face="Wingdings"><span style="font-family: Wingdings; color: red;">J</span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;"> </span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">And then, of course, if you want to get into some interesting philosophical, esoteric, not to say weird waters, you might ask yourself – How Big is Now? Could be a very small Now, in
which case the opportunities and the responsibilities of infinitesimal. On the other hand, that NOW could be huge – like the whole Cosmos. Talk about opportunity and responsibility! Boggles the mind! Probably not worth thinking about!!</span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;"> </span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Harrison</span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;"> </span></font></div> <div> <div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Harrison Owen</span></font></div> <div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red"
face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">7808 River Falls Drive</span></font></div> <div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Potomac, Maryland 20854</span></font></div> <div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Phone </span></font><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">301-365-2093</span></font></div> <div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Skype hhowen</span></font></div> <div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Open
Space Training</span></font><font color="red"><span style="color: red;"> <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.com/"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial;">www.openspaceworld.com</span></font></a> </span></font></div> <div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Open Space Institute</span></font><font color="red"><span style="color: red;"> <a href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial;">www.openspaceworld.org</span></font></a></span></font></div> <div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">Personal website</span></font><font color="red"><span style="color: red;"> <a href="http://www.ho-image.com/"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial;">www.ho-image.com</span></font></a> </span></font></div>
<div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;">OSLIST</span></font><font color="red" face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial; color: red;">: To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit: </span></font><font color="red"><span style="color: red;"><a href="http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html"><font face="Arial"><span style="font-family: Arial;">www.listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html</span></font></a></span></font></div> </div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="red" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: red;"> </span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">-----Original Message-----<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> OSLIST
[mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Gabriela Ender<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, May 09, 2007 11:56 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: whatever happens...</span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="navy" face="Trebuchet MS" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color: navy;">Dear John, and others,<br> <br> I want to come back to your wonderful thoughts regarding this principle because I like the way you have been experimenting in Haitian Creole and in English with very much: "<strong><b><font face="Trebuchet MS"><span
style="font-family: "Trebuchet MS";">What Happens is what happens - learn and move forward."</span></font></b></strong></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="navy" face="Trebuchet MS" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color: navy;"> </span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="navy" face="Trebuchet MS" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color: navy;">And you have added: "This principle helps us to not lament over should'ves, to not wallow in regrets. We're all responsible for how we use our time and space together during this meeting. Let's assume that responsibility and be prepared to accept what happens and to continually strive to learn and to keep moving forward."</span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:
0.5in;"><font color="navy" face="Trebuchet MS" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color: navy;"> </span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="navy" face="Trebuchet MS" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color: navy;">I totally agree and I like they way you describe it!</span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="navy" face="Trebuchet MS" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color: navy;"> </span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="navy" face="Trebuchet MS" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color: navy;">I have a question. Would it be also okay to say: "<strong><b><font face="Trebuchet MS"><span style="font-family:
"Trebuchet MS";">What happened is what happened - learn and move forward</span></font></b></strong>." ? I mean "What happened is what happened" (it is past - so we cannot change it anymore) and "learn and move forward." is present ... with responsibility in my/our "here and now".</span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="navy" face="Trebuchet MS" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color: navy;">"What happens is what happens" sounds for me (as a foreign English speaking person) like it is the present and for "here and now" we are responsible ... how we use our time. Therefore I think that changing the first part of this principle variant "into past" could express the "when its over its over" in it a bit better and would make a distinction to present and concsious responsibilty.</span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="navy" face="Trebuchet MS" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color: navy;">I would appreciate your and the opinion from others a lot. Thank you very much!<br> <br> Warmly,</span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><font color="navy" face="Trebuchet MS" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Trebuchet MS"; color: navy;">Gabriela</span></font></div> </div> </div> * * ========================================================== OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist * * ========================================================== OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------ To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</blockquote><br><BR><BR><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span><a href="http://johnengle.net">www.johnengle.net</a> Open space facilitation<br><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);" href="http://circlesofchange.com">www.circlesofchange.com</a> Participatory learning and leadership<br><a href="http://harvesttime.cc">www.harvesttime.cc</a> <span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span>Harvesting for justice that all may have enough<br><br>telephone Haiti: 509-461-3067<br><br>email: john at johnengle.net <br>telephone: 202-236-6532 <br>fax: 202-449-8343 <br> <br>John Engle <br>P.O. Box 337 <br>Hershey, PA 17033
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--0-1660571818-1178755339=:66993--
>From Wed May 9 17:16:22 2007
Message-Id: <WED.9.MAY.2007.171622.0700.>
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 17:16:22 -0700
Reply-To: john at johnengle.net
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: John Engle <john at johnengle.net>
Subject: Re: whatever happens...
In-Reply-To: <46422247.5070001 at tlu.ee>
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Thanks for your response, Arno.
It's so important that translation captures the essence.
In Haiti, the direct translation of the principle uses the same language that has been used in the past by radical groups indicating, "if your car get's blown up, if your windshield or head get's crushed by a rock or a bullet, it's that what happened. We're on the warpath for change. Violence and destruction is likely to happen."
John
Arno Baltin <arno at tlu.ee> wrote: Dear Gabriela, and others,
In Estonian the printciple is translated so that "what ever happens" is
understood as something that will happen in future (although we dont
have grammatical future). At the same time "happens" has in everyday use
mostly negative connotation. When a child comes to parent with unhappy
face, the parent will probably ask "what happened?". Or there is a
saying "we will be friends whatever happens". So when people first time
hear the principle of "what ever happens" in OS it sounds a bit like a
warning that things might go "wrong" but there is still no need to worry
about it. If in English "happens" and "happy" sounds quite similar (at
least to foreigners ear) then in Estonian closest association with
"happens" is "accident".
with best regards,
Arno
Gabriela Ender wrote:
> Dear John, and others,
>
> I want to come back to your wonderful thoughts regarding this
> principle because I like the way you have been experimenting in
> Haitian Creole and in English with very much: "*What Happens is what
> happens - learn and move forward."*
>
> And you have added: "This principle helps us to not lament over
> should'ves, to not wallow in regrets. We're all responsible for how we
> use our time and space together during this meeting. Let's assume that
> responsibility and be prepared to accept what happens and to
> continually strive to learn and to keep moving forward."
>
> I totally agree and I like they way you describe it!
>
> I have a question. Would it be also okay to say: "*What happened is
> what happened - learn and move forward*." ? I mean "What happened is
> what happened" (it is past - so we cannot change it anymore) and
> "learn and move forward." is present ... with responsibility in my/our
> "here and now".
> "What happens is what happens" sounds for me (as a foreign English
> speaking person) like it is the present and for "here and now" we are
> responsible ... how we use our time. Therefore I think that
> changing the first part of this principle variant "into past" could
> express the "when its over its over" in it a bit better and would make
> a distinction to present and concsious responsibilty.
> I would appreciate your and the opinion from others a lot. Thank you
> very much!
>
> Warmly,
> Gabriela
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www.johnengle.net Open space facilitation
www.circlesofchange.com Participatory learning and leadership
www.harvesttime.cc Harvesting for justice that all may have enough
telephone Haiti: 509-461-3067
email: john at johnengle.net
telephone: 202-236-6532
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Thanks for your response, Arno.<br><br>It's so important that translation captures the essence.<br><br>In Haiti, the direct translation of the principle uses the same language that has been used in the past by radical groups indicating, "if your car get's blown up, if your windshield or head get's crushed by a rock or a bullet, it's that what happened. We're on the warpath for change. Violence and destruction is likely to happen."<br><br>John <br><br><b><i>Arno Baltin <arno at tlu.ee></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> Dear Gabriela, and others,<br><br>In Estonian the printciple is translated so that "what ever happens" is <br>understood as something that will happen in future (although we dont <br>have grammatical future). At the same time "happens" has in everyday use <br>mostly negative connotation. When a child comes to parent with unhappy <br>face, the parent will probably
ask "what happened?". Or there is a <br>saying "we will be friends whatever happens". So when people first time <br>hear the principle of "what ever happens" in OS it sounds a bit like a <br>warning that things might go "wrong" but there is still no need to worry <br>about it. If in English "happens" and "happy" sounds quite similar (at <br>least to foreigners ear) then in Estonian closest association with <br>"happens" is "accident".<br><br>with best regards,<br><br>Arno<br> <br><br>Gabriela Ender wrote:<br>> Dear John, and others,<br>><br>> I want to come back to your wonderful thoughts regarding this <br>> principle because I like the way you have been experimenting in <br>> Haitian Creole and in English with very much: "*What Happens is what <br>> happens - learn and move forward."*<br>> <br>> And you have added: "This principle helps us to not lament over <br>> should'ves, to not wallow in regrets. We're all responsible for how we <br>>
use our time and space together during this meeting. Let's assume that <br>> responsibility and be prepared to accept what happens and to <br>> continually strive to learn and to keep moving forward."<br>> <br>> I totally agree and I like they way you describe it!<br>> <br>> I have a question. Would it be also okay to say: "*What happened is <br>> what happened - learn and move forward*." ? I mean "What happened is <br>> what happened" (it is past - so we cannot change it anymore) and <br>> "learn and move forward." is present ... with responsibility in my/our <br>> "here and now".<br>> "What happens is what happens" sounds for me (as a foreign English <br>> speaking person) like it is the present and for "here and now" we are <br>> responsible ... how we use our time. Therefore I think that <br>> changing the first part of this principle variant "into past" could <br>> express the "when its over its over" in it a bit better
and would make <br>> a distinction to present and concsious responsibilty.<br>> I would appreciate your and the opinion from others a lot. Thank you <br>> very much!<br>><br>> Warmly,<br>> Gabriela<br>> * * ========================================================== <br>> OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU ------------------------------ To <br>> subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of <br>> oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu: <br>> http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html To learn about <br>> OpenSpaceEmailLists and OSLIST FAQs: http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist <br><br>*<br>*<br>==========================================================<br>OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<br>------------------------------<br>To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,<br>view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu:<br>http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html<br><br>To learn about OpenSpaceEmailLists
and OSLIST FAQs:<br>http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist<br></blockquote><br><BR><BR><span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span><a href="http://johnengle.net">www.johnengle.net</a> Open space facilitation<br><a style="color: rgb(0, 0, 255);" href="http://circlesofchange.com">www.circlesofchange.com</a> Participatory learning and leadership<br><a href="http://harvesttime.cc">www.harvesttime.cc</a> <span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span>Harvesting for justice that all may have enough<br><br>telephone Haiti: 509-461-3067<br><br>email: john at johnengle.net <br>telephone: 202-236-6532 <br>fax: 202-449-8343 <br> <br>John Engle <br>P.O. Box 337 <br>Hershey, PA 17033
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