The Emergant (used to be RE: hierarchy and things)

openspacekorea openspacers at openspacekorea.org
Tue Jul 17 08:24:17 PDT 2007


harrison said "We continue to talk about "design" and "organizing things" -
which is quite understandable since that is what we have always done. And
yet in a self organizing (Open Space) world both design and organization are
not fundamentally of our making."
 
isn't one thing less making our lives and the world lighter/slimer and leads
to get them self-organize?
 
and hierarchy might be one of those to be less...
 
have a nice summer night's dream, for those who are on this part of our
planet. ;-)
 
Love and Peace,
 
park


  _____  

From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harrison
Owen
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 8:18 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: The Emergant (used to be RE: hierarchy and things)



Brian wrote: "For me personally, this is why I have kept going to the OSonOS
gatherings, hoping that - as I said recently to Michael Pannwitz Jnr, -
there might be the emergence of some impacting and effective discussion and
prospective exploration relating to these very aspects of our work."

 

Brian, as you might suspect I share your passion, and probably also your
impatience ("That this goal is perhaps seldom achieved (IMHO at least"). But
at the same time I also suspect that the pot has been coming to a boil on
its own time table, and as we all know a watched pot never boils! It seems
to me that a number of the critical pieces are in place and that the
conversation is now joined. But I think we all have to recognize that the
territory is a new one, and that there will be multiple stops, start, side
trips and detours.

 

As part of that conversation I would point out what seems to me to be a
puzzle in our thinking. We continue to talk about "design" and "organizing
things" - which is quite understandable since that is what we have always
done. And yet in a self organizing (Open Space) world both design and
organization are not fundamentally of our making. We continue to have and
important role to play in the whole affair, but rather a different one that
most of us expected. Perhaps the first step is to deeply appreciate the
design and organization that emerges, and then seek ways to optimize the
effect?

 

Harrison

 

 

  _____  

From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Brian S
Bainbridge
Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:49 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: hierarchy and things

 

Responding to Chris Corrigan's insighting.

Dear Chris

As a person who - perhaps as much as any other Open Space character - lives
within a dominantly hierarchic system, I have very little personal interest
in the matter of hierarchies, except to note that they "are there" in some
fashion.

What I am excited about in your letter is the last paragraph - talking about
seeing "the larger implications for organizing human endeavours" , the
"incredibly inspired thinking", the "broad implications for the way things
are organized", and the "crux of the next level of investigations into what
all these methodologies mean".

For me personally, this is why I have kept going to the OSonOS gatherings,
hoping that - as I said recently to Michael Pannwitz Jnr, - there might be
the emergence of some impacting and effective discussion and prospective
exploration relating to these very aspects of our work.

For more years than I can remember, these are the real goals and dreams of
why I open space, every time. And, with so many other wonderful people in
this network, I know an immense amount of change and growth and development
and success has been achieved.

To share the insighting, to help it happen more widely yet, to encourage
"newbies" to start to think in these terms, to work up themes which
stimulate such results, and to learn from so many other more experienced
people than I how to help these things happen better - that, for me, is what
an OSonOS is primarily about. That this goal is perhaps seldom achieved
(IMHO at least) only means it is more important yet to continue trying to
help it happen, whatever of the immense personal expense and inconvenience
and long- distance travel and so on.

All praise to you - again - Chris, for getting this very aspect into words -
for me at least. The Camden gathering could be very special, perhaps. That's
my prayer.

Ta!

Cheers and blessings,   BRIAN

 

Fr Brian S. Bainbridge
0412 111 525

Skype: briansbain

  _____  

From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Chris
Corrigan
Sent: Sunday, 15 July 2007 9:30 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: hierarchy...was report from the field

 

Within the Art of Hosting community of practice, we have been looking at a
fifth organizational paradigm, which is something like a combination of
hierarchy, circle, network and bureaucracy.  Some of us have been looking at
what these four paradigms have to offer, for examples, hierarchy offers
order and clarity, circle offers an equal reflective space, network offers
an immediate ability to connect with whatever is needed, and bureaucracy
helps channel resources where they are needed, "irrigating" initiatives or
parts of an organization. 

Certainly, each of these has a dark side, but if the benefits are
illuminated and then transcended, you get a fifth organizational paradigm in
which all four can be somehow present and somehow something new is born.  I
think we are increasingly seeing Open Space meetings as the embodiments of
this fifth form, which has gone by many other names among those of us here
on the list: InterActive Organization, Conscious Open Space Organization,
Inviting Organization, Radiant Networking and so on.  There is something in
the pattern of Open Space that, if it has not yet achieved transcendence of
these four forms, at least leads the eye to what might emerge.
Self-organization is clearly the key, or at least the gas in the engine. 

I find it interesting that many of us who are devoted to these models of
dialogic practice can.  

Great thread.

Chris

On 7/15/07, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net> wrote:

Raffi -- You will notice that I very carefully did not use the word
"hierarchy," but a quite different word -- "elitism." I am not sure that is
the right word either, but that is the problem with words. Indeed, hierarchy

itself (as you point out) is not a bad thing. Quite natural in fact and very
useful. Heirarchy is a problem, however, when it is frozen and stuck. At
that point it becomes an "old" hierarchy reflective of a different time 
and/or situation, holding power and authority very much in the fashion of
the Divine Right of Kings. That is what I would call elitism. The real
problem is that it is non-functional because it limits the capacity of a 
system to adapt to a changing environment. This of course can go on for a
long time, and indeed some environments stick around for a bit. But at the
moment a stable environment seems to be more the exception than the rule. So

Heirarchy, Yes. Elitism, No.

In terms of our community of folks -- to be sure there is hierarchy, in fact
there are multiple hierarchies constantly changing with time and tide, and
many existing simultaneously in a wonderful dance of conflict and 
collaboration. I think that is fantastic, useful, and something to be
honored. However, if we ever got to the point where there was one,
unchanging hierarchy that would be the last moment you would be seeing me
anywhere on the premises -- even if, and most especially if, I was the King
of the heap!

I think Kaliya is absolutely correct in pointing out the utility of a
"repetitional meritocratic hierarchy" (WOW! -- the words sort of roll off 
the tongue!!). And if I understand the words at all, I think that is pretty
much what "we" are. I would also agree that experience, training, maturity
are critical -- in Open Space, as everywhere else. But I would take some 
issue with the notion that, "Open Space Technology is fundamentally
different then these two community practices -- OST is not trying to build
an operating system or have 100,000 all collaborate on the same thing - it 
doesn't 'need' the kind of hierarchy that technical communities do."

>>From where I sit, the adventure we have embarked on is actually larger and
more complex than the "simple business" of creating an operating system. Our

task (or at least the one I choose for myself) is not so much about
designing a system but rather the appreciation of the infinite complexity
and elegance of the self-organizing Human System. And this is not just 
"music appreciation," performance is the name of the game. How do we
effectively live in this system, and maybe even more importantly, what can
we do to enable the system to live?

I think of Open Space as a wonderful natural experiment in which thousands 
of people are participating. The power of the experiment emerges when we
freely and openly share our experiences and understandings. And everybody
has a vital part to play. Those of us who have been around for a bit may 
have a broader and possibly deeper view, but there is an almost inevitable
tendency to take some things for granted and get stuck in our ways. The
antidote for all of that is the arrival of fresh eyes with apparently "dumb 
questions." There are no dumb questions that are also real questions. Real
questions have no answers, they only open more space and take you deeper.
And when you have lots of space (up, down, sideways, wherever)-- then the 
fun begins.

Harrison

-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Raffi
Aftandelian
Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 2:08 PM 
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: hierarchy...was report from the field

Greetings friends and colleagues--

Harrison you wrote:

"The other day I got a note which said in part, "I was surprised to 
find out that there was a hierarchy in the OST community and everyone having
a specific place to hold, voices are not equal and politics prevails in
certain circuits  Just the same old same old... I'm not sure this is what 
you envisioned with OST." I have no idea what the specific circumstances
were, and less interest in finding out. But presuming that we have the
creeping tentacles of elitism sneaking in - a good dose of the Law of Two 
Feet and a clear recognition of the Universal License of Open Space
(everybody has one by birth) should do the trick. Or something."

I would love to hear more from the person who wrote about hierarchy in the 
OST community. What is meant by "hierarchy" here?

Isn't there hierarchy everywhere? Is it a bad thing? The question is what
kind of hierarchy do we have in the OST community? Is it a hierarchy that 
feeds us, strengthens us? And how do we choose to engage with it as a
community? Do we create the spaces to talk about the power differentials
within our practitioner community in a way that, well, builds more capacity 
within us?

Quakers, for example, acknowledge that voices are not equal within the life
of a Monthly Meeting. They have the concept of "weightiness" or a "weighty
Friend."  In other words, these are the elders within the Quaker world. 

And doesn't the OST world have its elders and sages?

I, too, have heard (and thought) that the OST community is the "same
old...," - heck, some of that "same oldness" shows up on the list from time 
to time- *and* I do not know of a more generous, welcoming, inspiring
facilitation community. We either choose to engage with the OST community as
it is, or...well exercise the law of two feet.


Raffi

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-- 
CHRIS CORRIGAN
Facilitation - Training
Open Space Technology

Weblog: http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot
Site: http://www.chriscorrigan.com

Principal, Harvest Moon Consultants, Ltd.
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