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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000080><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=734301015-17072007>harrison said "</SPAN><STRONG>We continue to talk about
“design” and “organizing things” – which is quite understandable since that is
what we have always done. And yet in a self organizing (Open Space) world both
design and organization are not fundamentally of our making</STRONG><SPAN
class=734301015-17072007>.</SPAN><SPAN
class=734301015-17072007>"</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000080><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=734301015-17072007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000080><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=734301015-17072007>isn't one thing less making our lives and the world
lighter/slimer and leads to get them
self-organize?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000080><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=734301015-17072007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000080><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=734301015-17072007>and hierarchy might be one of those to be
less...</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000080><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=734301015-17072007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000080><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=734301015-17072007>have a nice summer night's dream, for those who are on
this part of our planet. ;-)</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000080><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=734301015-17072007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000080><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=734301015-17072007>Love and Peace,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000080><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=734301015-17072007></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#000080><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=734301015-17072007>park</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
color=#000080 size=2></FONT><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=ko dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> OSLIST
[mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Harrison
Owen<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 16, 2007 8:18 PM<BR><B>To:</B>
OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> The Emergant (used to be RE:
hierarchy and things)<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Brian wrote:
“</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">For me personally, this
is why I have kept going to the OSonOS gatherings, hoping that – as I said
recently to Michael Pannwitz Jnr, - there might be the emergence of some
impacting and effective discussion and prospective exploration relating to these
very aspects of our work.”<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Brian, as you might
suspect I share your passion, and probably also your impatience (“That this goal
is perhaps seldom achieved (IMHO at least”). But at the same time I also suspect
that the pot has been coming to a boil on its own time table, and as we all know
a watched pot never boils! It seems to me that a number of the critical pieces
are in place and that the conversation is now joined. But I think we all have to
recognize that the territory is a new one, and that there will be multiple
stops, start, side trips and detours.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As part of that
conversation I would point out what seems to me to be a puzzle in our thinking.
We continue to talk about “design” and “organizing things” – which is quite
understandable since that is what we have always done. And yet in a self
organizing (Open Space) world both design and organization are not fundamentally
of our making. We continue to have and important role to play in the whole
affair, but rather a different one that most of us expected. Perhaps the first
step is to deeply appreciate the design and organization that emerges, and then
seek ways to optimize the effect?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Harrison</SPAN></FONT></st1:place><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">OSLIST</st1:PersonName> [mailto:<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">OSLIST</st1:PersonName>@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Brian S Bainbridge<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:49
AM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">OSLIST</st1:PersonName>@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: hierarchy and
things</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Responding to Chris
Corrigan’s insighting.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Dear
Chris<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As a person who –
perhaps as much as any other Open Space character – lives within a dominantly
hierarchic system, I have very little personal interest in the matter of
hierarchies, except to note that they “are there” in some
fashion.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">What I am excited about
in your letter is the last paragraph – talking about seeing “the larger
implications for organizing human endeavours” , the “incredibly inspired
thinking”, the “broad implications for the way things are organized”, and the
“crux of the next level of investigations into what all these methodologies
mean”.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">For me personally, this
is why I have kept going to the OSonOS gatherings, hoping that – as I said
recently to Michael Pannwitz Jnr, - there might be the emergence of some
impacting and effective discussion and prospective exploration relating to these
very aspects of our work.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">For more years than I
can remember, these are the real goals and dreams of why I open space, every
time. And, with so many other wonderful people in this network, I know an
immense amount of change and growth and development and success has been
achieved.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To share the
insighting, to help it happen more widely yet, to encourage “newbies” to start
to think in these terms, to work up themes which stimulate such results, and to
learn from so many other more experienced people than I how to help these things
happen better – that, for me, is what an OSonOS is primarily about. That this
goal is perhaps seldom achieved (IMHO at least) only means it is more important
yet to continue trying to help it happen, whatever of the immense personal
expense and inconvenience and long- distance travel and so
on.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">All praise to you –
again – Chris, for getting this very aspect into words – for me at least. The
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Camden</st1:City></st1:place> gathering
could be very special, perhaps. That’s my prayer.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Ta!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cheers and
blessings, BRIAN<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Fr Brian S.
Bainbridge<BR>0412 111 525</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Skype:
briansbain</SPAN></FONT><SPAN lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">OSLIST</st1:PersonName> [mailto:<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">OSLIST</st1:PersonName>@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Chris Corrigan<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Sunday, 15 July 2007 9:30
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">OSLIST</st1:PersonName>@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: hierarchy...was report from
the field</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN lang=EN-AU style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Within the Art of Hosting
community of practice, we have been looking at a fifth organizational paradigm,
which is something like a combination of hierarchy, circle, network and
bureaucracy. Some of us have been looking at what these four paradigms
have to offer, for examples, hierarchy offers order and clarity, circle offers
an equal reflective space, network offers an immediate ability to connect with
whatever is needed, and bureaucracy helps channel resources where they are
needed, "irrigating" initiatives or parts of an organization. <BR><BR>Certainly,
each of these has a dark side, but if the benefits are illuminated and then
transcended, you get a fifth organizational paradigm in which all four can be
somehow present and somehow something new is born. I think we are
increasingly seeing Open Space meetings as the embodiments of this fifth form,
which has gone by many other names among those of us here on the list:
InterActive Organization, Conscious Open Space Organization, Inviting
Organization, Radiant Networking and so on. There is something in the
pattern of Open Space that, if it has not yet achieved transcendence of these
four forms, at least leads the eye to what might emerge. Self-organization
is clearly the key, or at least the gas in the engine. <BR><BR>I find it
interesting that many of us who are devoted to these models of dialogic practice
can. <BR><BR>Great thread.<BR><BR>Chris<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=gmailquote><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><SPAN lang=EN-AU style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On 7/15/07, <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Harrison Owen</SPAN></B> <<A
href="mailto:hhowen@verizon.net">hhowen@verizon.net</A>>
wrote:</SPAN></FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-AU><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Raffi -- You will notice that I very carefully did not
use the word<BR>"hierarchy," but a quite different word -- "elitism." I am not
sure that is<BR>the right word either, but that is the problem with words.
Indeed, hierarchy <BR>itself (as you point out) is not a bad thing. Quite
natural in fact and very<BR>useful. Heirarchy is a problem, however, when it is
frozen and stuck. At<BR>that point it becomes an "old" hierarchy reflective of a
different time <BR>and/or situation, holding power and authority very much in
the fashion of<BR>the Divine Right of Kings. That is what I would call elitism.
The real<BR>problem is that it is non-functional because it limits the capacity
of a <BR>system to adapt to a changing environment. This of course can go on for
a<BR>long time, and indeed some environments stick around for a bit. But at
the<BR>moment a stable environment seems to be more the exception than the rule.
So <BR>Heirarchy, Yes. Elitism, No.<BR><BR>In terms of our community of folks --
to be sure there is hierarchy, in fact<BR>there are multiple hierarchies
constantly changing with time and tide, and<BR>many existing simultaneously in a
wonderful dance of conflict and <BR>collaboration. I think that is fantastic,
useful, and something to be<BR>honored. However, if we ever got to the point
where there was one,<BR>unchanging hierarchy that would be the last moment you
would be seeing me<BR>anywhere on the premises -- even if, and most especially
if, I was the King<BR>of the heap!<BR><BR>I think Kaliya is absolutely correct
in pointing out the utility of a<BR>"repetitional meritocratic hierarchy" (WOW!
-- the words sort of roll off <BR>the tongue!!). And if I understand the words
at all, I think that is pretty<BR>much what "we" are. I would also agree that
experience, training, maturity<BR>are critical -- in Open Space, as everywhere
else. But I would take some <BR>issue with the notion that, "Open Space
Technology is fundamentally<BR>different then these two community practices --
OST is not trying to build<BR>an operating system or have 100,000 all
collaborate on the same thing - it <BR>doesn't 'need' the kind of hierarchy that
technical communities do."<BR><BR>>From where I sit, the adventure we have
embarked on is actually larger and<BR>more complex than the "simple business" of
creating an operating system. Our <BR>task (or at least the one I choose for
myself) is not so much about<BR>designing a system but rather the appreciation
of the infinite complexity<BR>and elegance of the self-organizing Human System.
And this is not just <BR>"music appreciation," performance is the name of the
game. How do we<BR>effectively live in this system, and maybe even more
importantly, what can<BR>we do to enable the system to live?<BR><BR>I think of
Open Space as a wonderful natural experiment in which thousands <BR>of people
are participating. The power of the experiment emerges when we<BR>freely and
openly share our experiences and understandings. And everybody<BR>has a vital
part to play. Those of us who have been around for a bit may <BR>have a broader
and possibly deeper view, but there is an almost inevitable<BR>tendency to take
some things for granted and get stuck in our ways. The<BR>antidote for all of
that is the arrival of fresh eyes with apparently "dumb <BR>questions." There
are no dumb questions that are also real questions. Real<BR>questions have no
answers, they only open more space and take you deeper.<BR>And when you have
lots of space (up, down, sideways, wherever)-- then the <BR>fun
begins.<BR><BR><st1:place w:st="on">Harrison</st1:place><BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">OSLIST</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:<A
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A>]
On Behalf Of Raffi<BR>Aftandelian<BR>Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 2:08 PM
<BR>To: <A
href="mailto:OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU">OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</A><BR>Subject:
hierarchy...was report from the field<BR><BR>Greetings friends and
colleagues--<BR><BR><st1:place w:st="on">Harrison</st1:place> you
wrote:<BR><BR>"The other day I got a note which said in part, "I was surprised
to <BR>find out that there was a hierarchy in the OST community and everyone
having<BR>a specific place to hold, voices are not equal and politics prevails
in<BR>certain circuits Just the same old same old... I'm not sure
this is what <BR>you envisioned with OST." I have no idea what the specific
circumstances<BR>were, and less interest in finding out. But presuming that we
have the<BR>creeping tentacles of elitism sneaking in - a good dose of the Law
of Two <BR>Feet and a clear recognition of the Universal License of Open
Space<BR>(everybody has one by birth) should do the trick. Or
something."<BR><BR>I would love to hear more from the person who wrote about
hierarchy in the <BR>OST community. What is meant by "hierarchy"
here?<BR><BR>Isn't there hierarchy everywhere? Is it a bad thing? The question
is what<BR>kind of hierarchy do we have in the OST community? Is it a hierarchy
that <BR>feeds us, strengthens us? And how do we choose to engage with it as
a<BR>community? Do we create the spaces to talk about the power
differentials<BR>within our practitioner community in a way that, well, builds
more capacity <BR>within us?<BR><BR>Quakers, for example, acknowledge that
voices are not equal within the life<BR>of a Monthly Meeting. They have the
concept of "weightiness" or a "weighty<BR>Friend." In other words,
these are the elders within the Quaker world. <BR><BR>And doesn't the OST world
have its elders and sages?<BR><BR>I, too, have heard (and thought) that the OST
community is the "same<BR>old...," - heck, some of that "same oldness" shows up
on the list from time <BR>to time- *and* I do not know of a more generous,
welcoming, inspiring<BR>facilitation community. We either choose to engage with
the OST community as<BR>it is, or...well exercise the law of two
feet.<BR><BR><BR>Raffi<BR><BR>*<BR>*<BR>==========================================================<BR><A
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w:st="on">OSLIST</st1:PersonName> FAQs:<BR><A
href="http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist">http://www.openspaceworld.org/oslist</A><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-AU
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR><BR clear=all><BR>-- <BR>CHRIS
CORRIGAN<BR>Facilitation - Training<BR>Open Space Technology<BR><BR>Weblog: <A
href="http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot">http://www.chriscorrigan.com/parkinglot</A><BR>Site:
<A
href="http://www.chriscorrigan.com">http://www.chriscorrigan.com</A><BR><BR>Principal,
Harvest Moon Consultants, Ltd.<BR><A
href="http://www.harvestmoonconsultants.com">http://www.harvestmoonconsultants.com</A>
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