whatever one says, people do whatever they want to do anyway

Tue Mar 7 00:31:58 PST 2006

I was having a parallel dialogue with Lisa Heft about my first open space
experience in Turkey and she offered some wisdom that I would like to share
with you
through our dialogue Lisa saw the real reason of my frustration and
urged me to share this with the list

Although Lisa’s message explains is quite well, what I wanted to offer to
the center is that my desperation at some moments was about the lack of
respect, not being able to listen to each other and concentrate on being
together
it wasn’t so much about the lack of action at the end
and in fact
there was action! :-) 
Of course, the story is told through my filters, expectations and
perception

thank you dear Lisa and thank you all who responded my plea and also held
space for me
I know that I need to be reminded of the wonderful principles
of OS every once in a while

f i l i z 
approach love and cooking with reckless abundance!
 <http://www.barakam.blogspot.com/> www.barakam.blogspot.com
 <http://www.bugday.org/> www.bugday.org 
  _____  

Kimden: Lisa Heft [mailto:lisaheft at openingspace.net] 
Tarih: Monday, March 06, 2006 19:15
Kime: 'Filiz Telek'; 'Maria Scordialos'; 'Sarah Whiteley'; 'Toke Paludan M ø
ller'; 'Tim Merry'; chris at chriscorrigan.com; judir at accesswave.ca
Bilgi: 'Funda Oral'
Konu: RE: opening space to save the ferries

Hi, dear fabulous Filiz –

It seems that this is really the difference – not the action items (as I’m
hearing on the OSLIST and in our exchanges here that there was energy around
some actions etc.) – I’m hearing another thing here than what you are
sharing on the OSLIST – your frustration with people not listening, with
feeling they are disrespectful (to each other perhaps and to whomever’s ‘got
the floor’ and is talking at the time, including you), people complaining,
and so on.  As a pattern (not just related to the ferries event).

I am hearing people on OSLIST counsel you about letting go attachment to
outcome for this particular event, as did I – but I am hearing also that you
know that and are present with that – what you are really feeling is
irritation that doesn’t feel to me like Law of Two Feet stuff but what you
see as ongoing disrespectful interchange (non-verbal and verbal).  Yes?  If
so, you might want to share *that* aspect of your observations with the
OSLIST folks.

That would really make me crazy. I mean, I’m pretty good a breathing through
my own attachments (I can still feel them and honor them but breathing
through them helps me not engage about them and believe the group’s taking
care of their needs and so on).  But it’s hard for me when I perceive people
are just being babies with each other and disrespecting each other or me.  I
know enough to hang in there and deal with those feelings post-event, but
still it’s hard.  

And if I were experiencing that as an overall flavor of a series of events I
was facilitating or other experiences I continuously have in communities and
organizations, as I hear you are experiencing, it would really make me
question my work with that community and my interest in continuing to engage
in that community.  I’d question if it’s my projection or if they are just
all being babies anyway.  I’d question whether it is gender or age
disrespect, though I have to really be banged on the head with that one to
assume it – I would refuse to automatically assume it or ‘buy into’ it.
Ultimately, I’d wonder if I needed to fight that battle and whether I’d need
to go where I felt safe and respected (such as working more with youth or
women or wherever I felt safer).  Instead of waiting for society to change,
I might say ‘gee you know I am tired of waiting for you to be respectful,
tired of soaking up all that negative energy, and I’ll now go where my
energies are more appreciated’.  I might have to go work where I can most
thrive.

This has not happened to me as a facilitator, so I am imagining what I might
feel.

But it HAS happened to me as an individual in a minority.  As an individual
in a minority (culture, whether people can tell that by looking at me or
not), I know how sometimes you want to fight the battles / be the model for
change / be the teacher / speak out
and sometimes you just say ‘I am tired
of always being in this role – you teach your own darn selves – I am tired
and you’re going to have to learn it for yourselves!’.  I know how hard it
can be and how you have to step in and out of that
community/role/environment to stay healthy, and only go back into it / the
fight when you feel replenished and ready again.

So I don’t know if this is how you are feeling as a woman or a younger
person or whatever in your community /society, but I just offer it as a
possibility / question to you.

As this aspect has not been discussed about your story on the OSLIST, feel
free to copy my email to the list if you want to engage that community in
this aspect of the conversation.  Feel free not to.  You know me – whatever
you like.

Looking forward to your thoughts,

Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: Filiz Telek [mailto:filiz at bugday.org] 
Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 11:48 PM
To: lisaheft at openingspace.net; 'Maria Scordialos'; 'Sarah Whiteley'; 'Toke
Paludan M ø ller'; 'Tim Merry'; chris at chriscorrigan.com; judir at accesswave.ca
Cc: 'Funda Oral'
Subject: YNT: opening space to save the ferries

Dear Lisa

Lots of invaluable thoughts, thank you
reading your words made certain
things more clear to me

Was I attached to outcome? Yes I was. I wanted it to be a successful meeting
in my terms; I had expectations of course

What frustrates me is not that the group did not come up with enough
actions, or with particular actions I was hoping they would come up with. In
fact, as Funda says, there were outcomes, the group produced something.

What frustrates me is that people do not listen to each other. People don’t
respect each other. People are not able to follow simplest instructions. I
felt like I was working with 5 year olds. I suspect it might have been
easier with the kids. How difficult is it to listen and not to leave the
room when someone is talking in the circle? I have been dealing with this
since I moved here, people do not listen. A participant today was suggesting
that we add a new principle to OS which is “people will do whatever they
want to do anyway”
Does that give you an idea?
So then what am I doing there inviting them to a certain process if they
will wonder off as they please only to complain at the end, oh what kind of
useless meeting was that? 
I really feel desperate in those moments when everyone just wants to hear
their own voice and do what they think is right to do
HOW am I supposed to
facilitate then? I don’t know. Because whatever I suggest, majority doesn’t
listen anyway. Is it best just to walk away then? 
As you can imagine this isn’t only about today. This has been my experience
in any group I found myself in the last two months and I already feel tired.
No one says it’s going to be easy in the beginning, but at this point I
don’t see how I work in these conditions preserving my wellbeing. I am yet
to figure that out

Thank you for your support, and I too think we are amazing! :-) 

f i l i z 

*
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