NO Such Thing as non-self-organizing system

Wed Mar 16 09:45:16 PST 2005

 Hear! Hear! 

For me the image of the people in the Ukraine with their orange scarves
against the bleak backdrop of the urban landscape standing peacefully, for
days and weeks, united in their resolve and their desire for their voices to
be heard is implanted in my brain and heart.  That image that fills me with
joy and hope and love of humanity.  Nothing to do with the politicians
wheeling and dealing and taking ownership with their grand posturing - that
brings out a whole lot of very different emotions.   We are currently
witnessing the power of people and their capacity to self-organize on all
fronts - a dissatisfaction with what exists seems to tap into that innate
capacity, in most instances.  Need to give that more thought.

Robyn

-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Harrison
Owen
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 10:31 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: NO Such Thing as non-self-organizing system

Artur Wrote: "This allows me to say that I agree with you (except perhaps in
your mantra, because I still think that there are some organizations - like
the Catholic Church and most armies, some companies and even countries -
that have a lot of success in acting as closed systems - even if there are
also open processes happening in them."

Oh Artur - When will you see the Light? Perceive the truth? Come to genuine
enlightenment? How can you doubt my words?? And of course, if you didn't
(doubt) you wouldn't be Artur, and I would loose a treasured colleague and
friend!

So - they aren't self-organizing???  Somehow these folks just managed to
escape a major force and principle in the cosmos that apparently dominates
just about everything else from quarks to quasars. But it could be true. And
maybe they have really pulled it off. I have no question that all the guilty
parties named have done their very best to maintain control. And for sure,
all their press releases say they are in charge. The "leaders" pound their
chests, and the followers acquiesce - if only to avoid the awful possibility
that they (the followers) might have some responsibility - which they
clearly don't if somebody else is in charge. And God forbid they might
actually have responsibility. That would mean giving up bitching rights. How
on earth are you going to complain about all the awful things "they" did if
you are they?

Not a doubt about it - they all put up a good front. Their act is almost
believable, particularly for people who want (need) to believe it. The
Emperor keeps his cloths on, and that nasty little boy has yet to whisper
his words of wisdom ("The old fellow is buck naked!").

Having spent no small amount of time within the Catholic Church (not to
mention other churches), Armies of various sorts, and more companies than I
care to remember - I have no question that the rhetoric is as you state. But
seen from the inside, my impression is that the reality is markedly
different. In the Catholic Church, you have only to listen to the multiple
persons and parties seeking fitness for themselves and in relationship to
the whole. The religious (nuns), for example working below the radar screen
doing what they think is right and offering ex post facto justification if
possible, and apologies if necessary. Watch an army in the field and ask who
is in charge. More often than not it is a 2nd lieutenant, sergeant or more
often a corporal out on "point." And when it comes to the companies - don't
forget Lucy out there in Accounting. Totally off the organization chart. Not
an ounce of authority - but if you want to get something done, you know who
to talk to!

Just think of all the wasted time and energy devoted to designing systems
that look great on paper and fall apart at execution. And even more wasted
ergs devoted to rationalizing the result and justifying the outcomes all
because if an insane (I think) need to be in control - even if you aren't.

Major case in point. George W. Bush. He took us to war in Iraq because of
the dire threat of WMDs and ties to Al Qaeda - none of which turned out to
be true. But he was definitely in charge! And talk about rationalization -
it now turns out that we got into the whole thing in order to promote
democracy and spread liberty! And it now seems that something is actually
happening in The Middle East. Of course it may all stop tomorrow - but for
the moment it is true that elections were held in Iraq, Palestine. Movement
is appearing n Lebanon. The Ukraine pulls off a peaceful revolution. Space
may be opening in Egypt and Saudi Arabia. And of course, George is going to
claim credit for it all. It was all in The Plan! He was/is in charge!
Justified on every count - or so he will say. But I say we have just muddled
through one more time. And somehow that great Complex Adaptive System called
humanity is doing what it has done for millennia - seeking fitness
internally and among its several parts and factions. Will it all work? Who
knows, but one thing I am sure about, George did not do it.

Harrison  

Harrison Owen

7808 River Falls Drive

Potomac, Maryland   20845

Phone 301-365-2093

Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com/>

Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org

Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU 

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-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of Artur
Silva
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 9:27 AM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Open space and software development (was 'A short
introduction')

Thanks, Harrison, for renaming the thread and sending this post when I have
10 minutes free.

This allows me to say that I agree with you (except peraphs in your mantra,
because I still think that there are some organizations - like the Catholic
Church and most armies, some companies and even countries - that have a lot
of sucess in acting as closed systems - even if there are also open
processes hapenning in them) and disagreee with Tom (or whoever he was
agreeing with).

If someone goes through the Archives will find a post from me some years ago
where, based on an article from the HBR on Open Source, I tried to show that
it is very similar to Open Space, because both are based on self
organization.

I also recall some posts (from Michael H?) about X-programming and its
relations with Open Space

Regards

Artur

--------

Harrison Owen <hhowen at comcast.net> wrote:

Tom Wrote: "I agree, comparisons between open space, open source and agile
methods have limited value."

Probably true, but I think that the value might lie in understanding that
operative power underlying all three "methods" is self-organization.

(...) 

To quote my now favorite mantra -- "There is no such thing as a
non-self organizing system." 

  _____  

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