wisdom; was: London calling--long reply

Sun Jul 10 16:41:37 PDT 2005

I completely agree that there have definitely been much wiser people than
Bush/Blair; however, I think it's 'un-wise' to sit at home and critique and
judge those in power without remembering that we might not be so wise if in
their shoes.  I didn't mean to say that simply getting elected makes one
wise....but both of these gentlemen have been elected not only once, but
twice - obviously not too stupid.  My point is that they are wiser than the
typical 'armchair quarterbacks' who sit in front of the TV watching
Farenheit 9/11 while judging their moves...

Thanks for your comments, they were much 'wiser' than some I read on
here...hehe!
  -----Original Message-----
  From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]On Behalf Of
Michaël-SYSt
  Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 4:08 PM
  To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
  Subject: Re: wisdom; was: London calling--long reply

  Funda-

  How can you say that the leaders of the G8 (or your leaders) are not wise?
They wouldn't be in the positions they are in if they were not wise.  That
isn't to say that they make no mistakes.  They are human.  I am 'beyond
baffled' at your shallow comment.

  Interesting
 this implicit definition of “wisdom”

  I can’t give this definition, but about wisdom I think Nelson Mandela gets
closer than George Bush or Tony Blair for instance.

  But no doubt they take a big responsibility on their shoulders, but
getting elected is not the same as wisdom.

  Is wisdom personal? There is a lot of wisdom in this list.

  Have a good time there in Halifax!

  ________________________

  Michaël Molenaar

  Systemisch Consult

  Tilburg - Holland

  michael at syst.nl

  Website: www.syst.nl

  Tel: +31 (0)13 5770070
  GSM +31 (0)6 51561095
  ________________________

  Van: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] Namens EJE Spady
  Verzonden: zondag 10 juli 2005 23:33
  Aan: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
  Onderwerp: Re: [OSLIST] London calling--long reply

  Funda-

  How can you say that the leaders of the G8 (or your leaders) are not wise?
They wouldn't be in the positions they are in if they were not wise.  That
isn't to say that they make no mistakes.  They are human.  I am 'beyond
baffled' at your shallow comment.

  Also, remember that Fahrenheit 9/11 is a Hollywood flick.  Hardly
factual...and Michael Moore isn't exactly, a leader.  He makes the big bucks
because people like yourself buy into his irrational philosophies.

  As for your last comment, I guess you are trying to say that the "men in
power" (the G8 leaders and your own) are the ones responsible for the
terrorist attacks of 9/11, Spain and now London...............what
the????????  You are entitled to your own thoughts/beliefs but they are
about as far from reality as any I have ever heard!!!

  Keep smokin'.............

    -----Original Message-----
    From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU]On Behalf Of Funda
Oral
    Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 3:06 AM
    To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
    Subject: Re: London calling--long reply

    Paul,

    Ok, i agree we can discuss the truths and rules imposed on us by all the
religions. I often think that they make us sick, they separate us,

    they encourage us being enemy of each other rather then brothers. Or
maybe, not the religions but the leaders do so.

    Jon,

    Thank you for keeping us informed and sharing with us what is happening
in London but I am very doubtful that your (G8) leaders are wise

    as mentioned in your mail. Our leaders are not wise either.

    But even worse, i am afraid they cooperate more to be in power rather
then for the benefit of all the human beings and the world.

    Did anyone watch Fahrenheit 9/11?....What i saw there was; some men in
power (religious, business leaders) from all the religions

    coming together to play with the rest of the world.

    If we look around carefully to find who is responsible of what is
happening, I don't think the answer is  "a bunch of terrorists"

    Funda

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: EVERETT813 at aol.com

      To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE..EDU

      Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 9:37 AM

      Subject: Re: London calling--long reply

      In a message dated 7/8/05 11:10:06 PM, chris.corrigan at gmail.com
writes:

      I don't usually weigh in on stuff like this, and I'm sure others will
tan your hide for it, but Paul, I have to stand in front of the rash
generalizations you are making about "Muslims."

      Sorry, Chris, I don't regard those as "rash generalizations", Friedman
is correct, NO high order Muslim from any Muslim nation has issued a fatwa
on bin Laden and his followers.  By that I mean someone of the stature that
issued the fatwa against Salman Rushdie for publishing a book they deemed
defamed Muhammad.  The Muslim Islamic cleric leader of Iran.

      And, of course, you are correct.  There are millions of Muslims who
abhor what is happening.  They want peace, too.  They want a life of
freedom, economic security, etc., why else would they leave their repressive
homelands to come to the Western nations?  Friedman's point (and mine) is
unless IMPORTANT people of the leadership of Muslim nations start to speak
out in loud, consistent tones that such is not part of the Koran (Ch. 5, v.
32; ch. 17, v. 33 according to an Immam I heard on the news tonight) and
their societies begin to isolate and negate these people, we are in for a
very bad time, indeed.

      You may be enlightened, but I will predict that if this goes on, and
gets worse, large numbers of people will not be acting in an enlightened
manner.  We all know about the 'tipping point'.  It happens in societies,
too.  It CAN happen here. Imagine the reaction of even a very large minority
to a WMD incident in a major Western nation.  It won't be pretty.

      Finally, there is much that can be done to avoid Huntington's Thesis,
but it takes a long time, a long time, and will take something along the
line of Martin Luther's 95 Theses within Islam before we will see a genuine
rapproachment between the globalizing West and the Islamic world.  I believe
we need to see the world as it is, not as we wish it was, and take steps
accordingly.

      Sincerely,

      Paul Everett

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