Open Space & Anti-Americanism

[Mike Copeland]

G'day Steve
This conversation has piqued my interest.

One general rule I live by is not to enter into discussions on politics. As
an outsider, one who is not an American but who has lived there for a number
of years, I think America is on a hiding to nothing on this one; damned if
you do damned if you don't.

It is very easy to judge the USA on Iraq, especially from a far, as the
whole Iraq war is so out there. We could have a great discussion on this one
in an OST meeting. My experience is that very little in this world is open
space. This is the reason OST is so radical.

I work in a government organisation which is so not open space is almost
laughable.  I mean to the point where people feel threatened by the whole
concept.

My experience tells me that wherever someone needs to wield power then space
is not being opened. The essence od open space for me is letting go!

A good discussion

Mike Copeland

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Gawron [mailto:gawron at megsinet.net]
Sent: Tuesday, 8 February 2005 12:22 p.m.
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: Open Space & Anti-Americanism


Hello David and all,

As an American, I find it counter-productive to compare giving birth to
democracy and removing a tyrant who killed millions of his country's
citizens to anything but furthering the cause of peace.  Only an ostrich
sticks his head in the sand and expects danger to go away.

It is NOT "my country right or wrong", it is "Doing the right thing before
something horrible goes wrong."  As an American, I would have rather we did
not get involved in Iraq, but on the same hand I am glad we lent a hand to
citizens in Iraq and Afghanistan to allow them to form their own destiny.

As the open space adage goes, whoever shows up is the right persons to be
there.  As an American, I am glad we responded to a call for peace in that
region.  If disagreeing with this is considered anti-American, then you are
entitled to your opinion.  But I still feel, Saddam and his henchmen were
and are a destabilizing influence on Peace in that region and the rest of
the world.  You can't have it both ways.

I will go back to lurking now,

Steve Gawron


----- Original Message -----
From: "David William McKay" <dwmckay at sympatico.ca>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:56 AM
Subject: Open Space & Anti-Americanism


> Sorry I'm on digest so can't refer to a specific posting.
>
> Someone linked to an article and said something like:
> Anti-americanism is dead. Or some such. I agree there's nothing to be
> gained from anti-americanism. Speaking from the pacifist side of the
> open-space I'm glad we finally are seeing nudges towards democracy in
> Iraq. But I also find it hard to see how anyone in favour of
> collaborative organizational change -- which is what I take open-space
> to be -- could feel all that comfy with a war justified by lies and
> false intelligence.
>
> War is always about changing the government of another nation-state by
> killing its citizens. That's about as far from collaborative change as
> you can get. It may at times be necessary. But when it is -- surely
> the ideal in a democratic state is to have a meaningful conversation
> about what counts as necessary so the management team (aka the
> Executive
> Branch) can have a mandate based upon informed consent.
>
> If I was an American -- I'm a Canuck -- I would be worried about the
> situation. Perhaps I have it bass-ackwards. But in wartime survival
> dictates "my country right or wrong" but in peacetime democracy
> dictates that the citizenry place democracy itself as the priority.
>
> David McKay
>
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