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<TITLE>RE: Open Space & Anti-Americanism</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>G'day Steve</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>This conversation has piqued my interest.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>One general rule I live by is not to enter into discussions on politics. As an outsider, one who is not an American but who has lived there for a number of years, I think America is on a hiding to nothing on this one; damned if you do damned if you don't.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>It is very easy to judge the USA on Iraq, especially from a far, as the whole Iraq war is so out there. We could have a great discussion on this one in an OST meeting. My experience is that very little in this world is open space. This is the reason OST is so radical.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>I work in a government organisation which is so not open space is almost laughable. I mean to the point where people feel threatened by the whole concept. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>My experience tells me that wherever someone needs to wield power then space is not being opened. The essence od open space for me is letting go!</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>A good discussion </FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Mike Copeland </FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Steve Gawron [<A HREF="mailto:gawron@megsinet.net">mailto:gawron@megsinet.net</A>] </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Tuesday, 8 February 2005 12:22 p.m.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: Open Space & Anti-Americanism</FONT>
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<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Hello David and all,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>As an American, I find it counter-productive to compare giving birth to democracy and removing a tyrant who killed millions of his country's citizens to anything but furthering the cause of peace. Only an ostrich sticks his head in the sand and expects danger to go away.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>It is NOT "my country right or wrong", it is "Doing the right thing before something horrible goes wrong." As an American, I would have rather we did not get involved in Iraq, but on the same hand I am glad we lent a hand to citizens in Iraq and Afghanistan to allow them to form their own destiny.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>As the open space adage goes, whoever shows up is the right persons to be there. As an American, I am glad we responded to a call for peace in that region. If disagreeing with this is considered anti-American, then you are entitled to your opinion. But I still feel, Saddam and his henchmen were and are a destabilizing influence on Peace in that region and the rest of the world. You can't have it both ways.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>I will go back to lurking now,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Steve Gawron</FONT>
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<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>----- Original Message -----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: "David William McKay" <dwmckay@sympatico.ca></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: <OSLIST@LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 6:56 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Open Space & Anti-Americanism</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>> Sorry I'm on digest so can't refer to a specific posting.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Someone linked to an article and said something like: </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Anti-americanism is dead. Or some such. I agree there's nothing to be </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> gained from anti-americanism. Speaking from the pacifist side of the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> open-space I'm glad we finally are seeing nudges towards democracy in </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Iraq. But I also find it hard to see how anyone in favour of </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> collaborative organizational change -- which is what I take open-space </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> to be -- could feel all that comfy with a war justified by lies and </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> false intelligence.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> War is always about changing the government of another nation-state by </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> killing its citizens. That's about as far from collaborative change as </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> you can get. It may at times be necessary. But when it is -- surely </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> the ideal in a democratic state is to have a meaningful conversation </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> about what counts as necessary so the management team (aka the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Executive</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Branch) can have a mandate based upon informed consent.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> If I was an American -- I'm a Canuck -- I would be worried about the </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> situation. Perhaps I have it bass-ackwards. But in wartime survival </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> dictates "my country right or wrong" but in peacetime democracy </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> dictates that the citizenry place democracy itself as the priority.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> David McKay</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
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