"learning" OS and more; was use of OS in a training for trainers

[Joe Bowers]

I'm an OS listserve virgin but just wanted to add to Harrison's thoughts the
idea that maybe we 'learn to Let Go' by simply noticing or becoming aware of
how we haven't (again and again and again).

Cheers

Joe Bowers
Success, Health & Happiness
p: (02) 9858 1569
m: 0403 395 488
joe at successandhappiness.com.au
www.successandhappiness.com.au

----- Original Message -----
From: "Harrison Owen" <hhowen at comcast.net>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: "learning" OS and more; was use of OS in a training for
trainers


> Julie -- I don't think you have tied yourself in knots at all. Or if you
did
> it was surely a knot that most of us have found ourselves wrapped up in at
> one time or another.  It has been clear to me ever since that anybody with
a
> good head and a good heart can "do" Open Space. A little training can
> certainly help with some of the details, but in most cases, simply having
> been a part of an OS will suffice. Or reading The  Book. Having said all
> that, I think it is also true that it then may take a life time to "learn"
> to do it really well. But it is learning of an odd sort. In fact it is
> mostly un-learning of much of what we previously taken to be "gospel" when
> it comes to working with groups -- such as the whole business about
"optimal
> group size." The core of all this is (as you point out) Letting Go -- and
> being comfortable with doing that.  Almost every training program I have
> been a part of eventually got to this core element. I guess I find some
real
> justification for training programs in this fact. I am not sure that you
can
> "learn to Let Go" -- but the whole process of thinking about that and
taking
> some first steps seems to go better with some friends and fellow travelers
> in attendance. Strange -- we have real problems giving up something we
never
> had in the first place!
>
> Call it what you will -- attitude adjustment, spiritual journey -- this is
> not about gaining some new skill or technique. I guess it is really about
a
> life change. And not everybody will choose to take the trip.
>
> Harrison
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Julie Stuart" <juliesstuart at hotmail.com>
> To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 4:51 AM
> Subject: Re: "learning" OS and more; was use of OS in a training for
> trainers
>
>
> > Raffi,
> >
> > Sorry, I think I tied myself up in knots in my last mail.
> >
> > I have found in my work that some people focus on "being trained" in
order
> > to feel that they can facilitate a (any) process, and want to be sure
that
> > they have got the "right" training from the "right" people in the
"right"
> > format.  I can see the argument for this with some tools and techniques,
> > although I have heard of people facilitating future search (for example)
> > without any training at all, simply using the book and applying the
> > principles.
> >
> > With open space however, I don't know that it is the training (or lack
of
> > it) that makes the difference.  The real key it seems to me is to
actually
> > trust the process and the people, rather than just saying that you do.
I
> > can't see that any amount of training, even with the best, can guarantee
> > that someone will get it.  I know people who have been trained in open
> > space, who have used it at times with groups, who understand it
completely
> > intellectually and think it's a fantastic thing - but when it comes to
> > actually opening space with a group they feel utterly out of control as
> > facilitators and set rules and give instructions and essentially close
the
> > space right back down again.  No matter how often they see it work they
> > still can't believe that the group will self-organise without their help
> > (the market place seems to cause particular panic), or that a
> self-selected
> > group of 20 people will be able to have a meaningful discussion (given
the
> > facilitator wisdom that self-managing discussion groups shuoldn't be
> larger
> > than 8 or certainly 10 people).
> >
> > I hope that this is a little clearer?  I'm winding down for a couple of
> > weeks on holiday, and my brain seems to be slightly muddled this week.
> >
> > I went to a Quaker school but I am not actually a Quaker myself.  When I
> > moved to secondary (high) school there was a choice of several local
> schools
> > for me.  One of these was very competitive and the other was more
> supportive
> > of individuals and had an ethos of helping every pupil achieve the best
> that
> > they could do, in compeition only with themselves.  I felt at that stage
> > that there really was only one choice for me.  It has to be said, that
at
> > that time the school was (and sitill) is a part of the state education
> > system, and there were very few Quakers attending, but the Head was
always
> a
> > Quaker, and I feel that something of the values percolated down into
> > everyone who went there to some extent.
> >
> > All the best,
> > Julie
> >
> >
> > >From: Raffi Aftandelian <raffi at pochtamt.ru>
> > >Reply-To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> > >To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> > >Subject: [OSLIST] "learning" OS and more; was use of OS in a training
for
> > >trainers
> > >Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 11:08:35 +0400
> > >
> > >Hi Julie!
> > >Thanks for your response! I didn't quite get what you meant here:
> > >
> > >"what I really wanted to
> > >say was that learning or remembering open space doesn't seem to me to
be
> > >directly related to what training a facilitator has or has not
received,
> > >and
> > >that focusing on the training aspect might not be the most helpful
thing
> to
> > >do.  I think that it is more closely linked to your experience and
> > >approach,
> > >and to whether you as a facilitator can actually believe what you say
to
> > >participants - that they really can self manage and come up with
> something
> > >great on their own."
> > >
> > >There was an important thought or several thoughts in this paragraph;
but
> I
> > >am not exactly sure what you meant.
> > >
> > >You say you went to a Quaker school, but you don't say you are a
Quaker.
> I
> > >came to Quakerism in Russia, but for a variety of reasons do not
practice
> > >it (in the sense of going to Meeting for Worship). One of the things I
> have
> > >wondered about is why Quakers (maybe the Quakers on this list will
> reply!)
> > >don't use OS regularly in the life of the Meeting, as another tool for
> > >conducting Meeting for Worship for Business. While I think discerning
the
> > >spirit of the group and using consensus is very powerful, conscious use
> of
> > >OS is also about Spirit. I sometimes find meeting for worship for
> business,
> > >well, boring frankly. Maybe that's a reflection of much innerwork that
I
> > >need to do, to truly understand how passion reflects itself in this
type
> of
> > >meeting.
> > >
> > >
> > >Raffi Aftandelian
> > >
> > >
> > >Date:    Mon, 5 Jul 2004 08:46:15 +0000
> > >From:    Julie Stuart <juliesstuart at hotmail.com>
> > >Subject: Re: use of OS in a training for trainers
> > >
> > >Raffi,
> > >
> > >I think that it's wonderful that you felt able to conduct part of a
> > >training
> > >session in open space despite some misgivings.  I just wanted to reply
to
> > >the last part of your mail, about "learning" to facilitate open space.
> > >
> > >From my experience in facilitating various types of off-the-shelf
> > >participative processes (as well as hybrids that we develop to suit a
> > >particular purpose), open space is not necessarily something that you
> need
> > >to be formally trained to use.  I have several colleagues who have been
> to
> > >learning workshops on open space, and yet of everyone in the
organisation
> > >it
> > >is me who invariably takes the baton and runs with it when an
opportunity
> > >arises to open space with a client.  I think that this is because open
> > >space
> > >is something that resonates with me personally and I especially enjoy
the
> > >challenge to my normal ways of control that it offers me.  On the other
> > >hand, my colleagues find it very difficult to let go and trust in the
> > >process and the people to self-manage, and they know themselves that
> while
> > >they get it in theory they just don't quite believe in it.  I have
never
> > >had
> > >any formal training in open space - I just go with what I've learnt
from
> > >the
> > >books, from OSonOs in Swenmark last year, and from the wisdom I've
> gathered
> > >from lurking on this list for the past couple of years.  I have had
lots
> of
> > >training in general facilitation skills and in other processes so
perhaps
> > >this gave me the confidence to jump into open space more quickly than
> > >otherwise.
> > >
> > >So, in case I've missed my point and rambled off, what I really wanted
to
> > >say was that learning or remembering open space doesn't seem to me to
be
> > >directly related to what training a facilitator has or has not
received,
> > >and
> > >that focusing on the training aspect might not be the most helpful
thing
> to
> > >do.  I think that it is more closely linked to your experience and
> > >approach,
> > >and to whether you as a facilitator can actually believe what you say
to
> > >participants - that they really can self manage and come up with
> something
> > >great on their own.
> > >
> > >I'd also like to thank you for the links to AVP information.  Although
I
> > >grew up and live in Northern Ireland and went to a Quaker school, I had
> > >never heard of the project before.  Good luck with all your work,
> > >
> > >Julie Stuart
> > >
> > >*
> > >*
> > >
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