"learning" OS and more; was use of OS in a training for trainers

[Harrison Owen]

Julie -- I don't think you have tied yourself in knots at all. Or if you did
it was surely a knot that most of us have found ourselves wrapped up in at
one time or another.  It has been clear to me ever since that anybody with a
good head and a good heart can "do" Open Space. A little training can
certainly help with some of the details, but in most cases, simply having
been a part of an OS will suffice. Or reading The  Book. Having said all
that, I think it is also true that it then may take a life time to "learn"
to do it really well. But it is learning of an odd sort. In fact it is
mostly un-learning of much of what we previously taken to be "gospel" when
it comes to working with groups -- such as the whole business about "optimal
group size." The core of all this is (as you point out) Letting Go -- and
being comfortable with doing that.  Almost every training program I have
been a part of eventually got to this core element. I guess I find some real
justification for training programs in this fact. I am not sure that you can
"learn to Let Go" -- but the whole process of thinking about that and taking
some first steps seems to go better with some friends and fellow travelers
in attendance. Strange -- we have real problems giving up something we never
had in the first place!

Call it what you will -- attitude adjustment, spiritual journey -- this is
not about gaining some new skill or technique. I guess it is really about a
life change. And not everybody will choose to take the trip.

Harrison

----- Original Message -----
From: "Julie Stuart" <juliesstuart at hotmail.com>
To: <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2004 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: "learning" OS and more; was use of OS in a training for
trainers


> Raffi,
>
> Sorry, I think I tied myself up in knots in my last mail.
>
> I have found in my work that some people focus on "being trained" in order
> to feel that they can facilitate a (any) process, and want to be sure that
> they have got the "right" training from the "right" people in the "right"
> format.  I can see the argument for this with some tools and techniques,
> although I have heard of people facilitating future search (for example)
> without any training at all, simply using the book and applying the
> principles.
>
> With open space however, I don't know that it is the training (or lack of
> it) that makes the difference.  The real key it seems to me is to actually
> trust the process and the people, rather than just saying that you do.  I
> can't see that any amount of training, even with the best, can guarantee
> that someone will get it.  I know people who have been trained in open
> space, who have used it at times with groups, who understand it completely
> intellectually and think it's a fantastic thing - but when it comes to
> actually opening space with a group they feel utterly out of control as
> facilitators and set rules and give instructions and essentially close the
> space right back down again.  No matter how often they see it work they
> still can't believe that the group will self-organise without their help
> (the market place seems to cause particular panic), or that a
self-selected
> group of 20 people will be able to have a meaningful discussion (given the
> facilitator wisdom that self-managing discussion groups shuoldn't be
larger
> than 8 or certainly 10 people).
>
> I hope that this is a little clearer?  I'm winding down for a couple of
> weeks on holiday, and my brain seems to be slightly muddled this week.
>
> I went to a Quaker school but I am not actually a Quaker myself.  When I
> moved to secondary (high) school there was a choice of several local
schools
> for me.  One of these was very competitive and the other was more
supportive
> of individuals and had an ethos of helping every pupil achieve the best
that
> they could do, in compeition only with themselves.  I felt at that stage
> that there really was only one choice for me.  It has to be said, that at
> that time the school was (and sitill) is a part of the state education
> system, and there were very few Quakers attending, but the Head was always
a
> Quaker, and I feel that something of the values percolated down into
> everyone who went there to some extent.
>
> All the best,
> Julie
>
>
> >From: Raffi Aftandelian <raffi at pochtamt.ru>
> >Reply-To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
> >To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
> >Subject: [OSLIST] "learning" OS and more; was use of OS in a training for
> >trainers
> >Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2004 11:08:35 +0400
> >
> >Hi Julie!
> >Thanks for your response! I didn't quite get what you meant here:
> >
> >"what I really wanted to
> >say was that learning or remembering open space doesn't seem to me to be
> >directly related to what training a facilitator has or has not received,
> >and
> >that focusing on the training aspect might not be the most helpful thing
to
> >do.  I think that it is more closely linked to your experience and
> >approach,
> >and to whether you as a facilitator can actually believe what you say to
> >participants - that they really can self manage and come up with
something
> >great on their own."
> >
> >There was an important thought or several thoughts in this paragraph; but
I
> >am not exactly sure what you meant.
> >
> >You say you went to a Quaker school, but you don't say you are a Quaker.
I
> >came to Quakerism in Russia, but for a variety of reasons do not practice
> >it (in the sense of going to Meeting for Worship). One of the things I
have
> >wondered about is why Quakers (maybe the Quakers on this list will
reply!)
> >don't use OS regularly in the life of the Meeting, as another tool for
> >conducting Meeting for Worship for Business. While I think discerning the
> >spirit of the group and using consensus is very powerful, conscious use
of
> >OS is also about Spirit. I sometimes find meeting for worship for
business,
> >well, boring frankly. Maybe that's a reflection of much innerwork that I
> >need to do, to truly understand how passion reflects itself in this type
of
> >meeting.
> >
> >
> >Raffi Aftandelian
> >
> >
> >Date:    Mon, 5 Jul 2004 08:46:15 +0000
> >From:    Julie Stuart <juliesstuart at hotmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: use of OS in a training for trainers
> >
> >Raffi,
> >
> >I think that it's wonderful that you felt able to conduct part of a
> >training
> >session in open space despite some misgivings.  I just wanted to reply to
> >the last part of your mail, about "learning" to facilitate open space.
> >
> >From my experience in facilitating various types of off-the-shelf
> >participative processes (as well as hybrids that we develop to suit a
> >particular purpose), open space is not necessarily something that you
need
> >to be formally trained to use.  I have several colleagues who have been
to
> >learning workshops on open space, and yet of everyone in the organisation
> >it
> >is me who invariably takes the baton and runs with it when an opportunity
> >arises to open space with a client.  I think that this is because open
> >space
> >is something that resonates with me personally and I especially enjoy the
> >challenge to my normal ways of control that it offers me.  On the other
> >hand, my colleagues find it very difficult to let go and trust in the
> >process and the people to self-manage, and they know themselves that
while
> >they get it in theory they just don't quite believe in it.  I have never
> >had
> >any formal training in open space - I just go with what I've learnt from
> >the
> >books, from OSonOs in Swenmark last year, and from the wisdom I've
gathered
> >from lurking on this list for the past couple of years.  I have had lots
of
> >training in general facilitation skills and in other processes so perhaps
> >this gave me the confidence to jump into open space more quickly than
> >otherwise.
> >
> >So, in case I've missed my point and rambled off, what I really wanted to
> >say was that learning or remembering open space doesn't seem to me to be
> >directly related to what training a facilitator has or has not received,
> >and
> >that focusing on the training aspect might not be the most helpful thing
to
> >do.  I think that it is more closely linked to your experience and
> >approach,
> >and to whether you as a facilitator can actually believe what you say to
> >participants - that they really can self manage and come up with
something
> >great on their own.
> >
> >I'd also like to thank you for the links to AVP information.  Although I
> >grew up and live in Northern Ireland and went to a Quaker school, I had
> >never heard of the project before.  Good luck with all your work,
> >
> >Julie Stuart
> >
> >*
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> >
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