So what should be done with the archieves now?

Wed Apr 7 18:55:25 PDT 2004

Harrison,

You never stop to amaze and show beauty with your crystal clarity and
passion and I am, as we all are, forever grateful to be able to witness
and be part of it.  The invitation and commitment (is that a given?)
<that we share what we are experiencing and learning OPENLY (what
else?). >           had taught me some courage and demanded articulation
(and had all of us, US that are not US speakers, stretch out English)
and was one of the main factors that moved my walls wider (Opened Space)
by making way for me to actively earn and be part of the global
community to the extant I am capable of.

This fish ball of OS listers had taught me everyday in a very tangible
way that we are not alone (there will always be someone awake that cares
enough to answer the most needy question.), and that it takes one to
tango: If you reach out for long enough, invitation and authenticity
will be answered (and will get you in even if you are "just looking".)
and will wade through cynicism and prejudice.
Knowing the nature of the list has put a constant demand for me to feel
safe only by knowing my intention, with no givens but trust (and
encouragement from you my friends of the list) . I can not always be
open and intimate on the list, but it is liberating and rewarding when I
can and I hope I'll get better with experience.
By watching you, Harrison, and Chris and Michael and Peggy and Julie and
all of you jewels -you on the list - I learnt that teaching oneself is a
most precious gift we give to others.
Thank you each and everyone.

So, before I get too mushy (it is very late)I will end with a practical
note:
I know the OSList is right to be open to everyone because this is our
"growing edge" in two ways: internally/personally and in
number/influence, yet I wish that we give the newcomers a fair chance:
Michael H (or anybody who cares) do we/could we have a nice "invitation
to OS text" that would be the first page if entering to the archives
directly? An inviting paragraph aligns the heart to deeper listening. I
guess you would rightly say 'passion bounded by responsibility" and
point it back to me - but , try with a little help from my friends
Goodnight

Tova

Tova Averbuch
Israel
Averbuch at post.tau.ac.il

-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of
Harrison Owen
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 4:07 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: Re: So what should be done with the archieves now?
.

My concern, however, comes from a different place, and possibly a
broader
perspective. As I said in a note posted some little time ago, which
simply
re-iterated what I have said ad nausea, Open Space, from the moment I
created, developed, stumbled into it (fill in the blank) is and has been
free. BUT I have always insisted that there is a COST -- that we share
what
we are experiencing and learning OPENLY (what else?). This LIST has been
and
continues to be an incredible vehicle for sharing. Increasingly, it has
become a global resource for anybody who wants to push back the walls of
their world, ie Open Space. The nature of what we have shared covers a
very
broad spectrum from the perverse to the peevish to the profound -- and
onwards to the philosophical, with multiple side trips to the technical
details. In sum, it represents the full spectrum of our collective
journey
in Open Space, as we have chosen to share it. At no point in the history
of
this LIST has it ever been, nor was it intended to be, a private club.
We
have taken great pains, I think, to honor and respect each other, but at
the
end of the day the purpose of OSLIST, or at least my purpose for this
LIST
ever since I signed on -- has not been to provide a safe and secure
sanctuary in which the members may communicate. Rather, it has been to
build
a body of knowledge and experience which will be available to anybody
who
cares.

Speaking very personally, I can say that the fundamental purpose of my
life
has been to share whatever I am, have experienced, or might know -- with
anybody who cared, to the extent that my presence, experience or
knowledge
might be helpful. Have I always been true to my ideals? Definitely not,
but
at least in terms of Open Space Technology, and all that I have learned
about Open Space in my life and world -- I think I have given it my best
shot. At a very mundane level, this is why I never chose to patent,
trademark, or copyright Open Space. Certainly my books are copyrighted,
but
that was more a matter of convention, to say nothing of my publishers'
wishes (after all they were investing the "big bucks" and wanted some
sense
of security). However, if you wander around the websites of the world
dealing with Open Space you will find large passages of my material, and
even my illustrations, presented without attribution. I am delighted! I
know
that Open Space is not about me. It is about US -- and that includes a
whole
mess of people who don't even know they are a part of US.

So back to OSLIST. My image (vision?) is that of a wonderful electronic
fishbowl with real people, opening real space, and reflecting on their
experience right out there in front of God and everybody. There is, and
has
been, a real sense of intimacy and genuine community which is
characteristic
of every Open Space of which I have been a part. This intimacy and
community
is often manifest in wonderful hugs and kisses. It is also manifest in
our
willingness to confront and engage each other directly and with respect.
Occasionally we have risen to the heights, and just as often we have
found
time for a little peevishness. In short, there has been chaos, confusion
and
conflict in abundance -- all included and transcended to become a
viable,
organic reality available for all to see. This, so far as I am
concerned, is
life in Open Space. Or to be truthful, it is just life.

I have always assumed that the people who populate OSLIST (including all
you
wonderful Lurkers!) are of a special sort. They really care about Open
Space
(or want to know more about it), and they really care to share what they
have learned and experienced with whomsoever. Our benefits on OSLIST are
considerable -- we have received support, encouragement, challenge,
suggestions, questions -- from which we (or for sure "I") have grown
enormously. We have cried together, argued, pontificated, blown our
minds in
marvelous and positive ways. And with these benefits comes a
responsibility
to share what we are, and what we have learned with anybody who cares to
know. That, at least, is my responsibility as I have come to understand
it.

Harrison

Harrison Owen
7808 River Falls Drive
Potomac, Maryland   20845
Phone 301-365-2093

Open Space Training www.openspaceworld.com
Open Space Institute www.openspaceworld.org
Personal website http://mywebpages.comcast.net/hhowen/index.htm
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives Visit:
http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

-----Original Message-----
From: OSLIST [mailto:OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU] On Behalf Of
Nicolai
von Ertzdorff
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 10:21 PM
To: OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
Subject: So what should be done with the archieves now?

Hi,
I still wonder about the archieves.
May be, I'm not completely up to date, putting just the same questions,
as
somebody did just before. -  But I still didn't get, why the archieves
can
be found and accessed by google. Or is this just something, which is
planned? I mean, archieves can be very interesting for a community.
But the so called "container" , the "skin" , the "whomb" with the
"cellular
compound", the baby inside has to be respected also. To me, it's very
important, to know about.
Not, because it bothers me personally. But it's just important, to know
about who in this is list is feeling like to do what?-I know some
archetypes
of interests, but not much more...but to know, whether finally this
becomes
a "tabu", just represented by having more "lurkers", or whether there is
a
true consensus in the community, to me it's important.-So, finally, I'd
like
to know about the problems quality: Is it a technical problem, or is it
a
decission - problem?

If it is something to be decided,
where is a statement in favor of why the archieves should be opened to
anybody, even not being in the list? -To me, It would be, like taking
away
the protecting skin, even if I have not the slightest problem about, for
eg,
making jokes on "W"'s..being found later at somebodies webpage.. But,
may
be, there are some convincing arguments also? Besides, dealing with
container-images: It's also important, that the "mother" feels good. If
the
mother doesn't feel good, the baby neither won't..But who is who in this
case ? <grin>

If it is not,
then, why it's not just possible, to maintain the archieves protected by
a
simple  password, like it's usual in many lists?
If somebody wants to make for eg a research, he can ask, simply..
Or, is it some problem, wich the "boisy"-staff is not able to solve,
actually? And what would be necessary to resolve it?

I'd love to be enabled to get some clear opinion about the issue .-))

With passionate interest in this list
Nicolai

*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu,
Visit:

http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu,
Visit:

http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html

 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System
 at the Tel-Aviv University CC.

*
*
==========================================================
OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU
------------------------------
To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options,
view the archives of oslist at listserv.boisestate.edu,
Visit:

http://listserv.boisestate.edu/archives/oslist.html
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20040408/1defd310/attachment-0007.htm>