OST: A User's NON-Guide - some comments

Artur F. Silva artsilva at mail.eunet.pt
Fri Jan 25 09:59:44 PST 2002


At 10:31 22-01-2002, Michael Herman wrote:

>chris corrigan and i have just finished a little project that we want to
>share with you because, after all, it's yours. (...) in late 2001, i got a
>bit behind on list emails.  then i managed to catch up, all except for
>what seemed really juicy... all of that self-org and spirit stuff. (...) i
>didn't even make it through the first message before i went cutting and
>pasting the contents into a word document..

>we wrote a bit more of an explanation in a short introduction, minus this
>gripping little tale, but the rest is all OSLIST... and like they said,
>the stuff is gold, well yellow, for community, anyway... and seems the
>perfect simple balance to the user's guide for running short training
>sessions and browsing the night before openings.  something to give new
>recruits and anxious veterans a dose of the depth that is this practice
>and this community and this learning list.

>and now the only question is what to do with the rest...


Dear Michael and Chris (and other list members):

Congratulations! You have done a marvelous job. A lot of hard, spirited
nights of work - but really worthwhile! I am very impressed by the work
that I imagine that goes with it, but also by the final "product" - the "book"
as it has been called.

Last weekend I saw a French film ("L' histoire d' Amelie") who's action is
in a typical quarter of Paris - from the magazines, I know that the people
of that quarter are very happy and they say "we are all there". And even
myself, that seldom went to that particular quarter, I feel that I am
also, if not in the film, at least in some cafes and metro stations that
appeared in it.

I had the same sensation reading your compilation. The OSlist is "there"
in a very clear way - with its open dialogues, some of the main subjects
many of us care about, our diversity of origins and opinions, many fresh
insights, etc. The list is "there" but more artistically edited like in a good
movie. Congratulations and thanks.

Because of personal (and sad!) reasons I have not followed the dialogue
about self-organization in detail, especially as it soon split in many
sub-threads. I think I read only half of the posts when they have been
initially posted. I have marked some others to read later and even three to
comment later, but probably I would never find the time to go back to that
anyhow.

And then I received the edited version and it was really amazing - to found
the posts I have read, but specially many pearls I have missed, all organized
with new headings (chapters) much more clear and to the point then the
initial sub-threads - namely the following one  (that I would like some day to
understand the meaning of): "Self-Organization is What Consciousness
(Spirit) Does" :-)

I also found you have discovered a marvelous ending and I have discovered a
Thanksgiving were I can participate: "Thank you space, for everything".
Very Taoist indeed. And I wonder if Aine Corrigan should not be included
as one of the co-authors. After all she has proved once again to be a skilled
OST practitioner ;-) And in what concerns OST, age is not a problem
and there is no certification required ;-)

I also liked very much the Introduction and suggest that you don't change it.
Specially don't change it to include references or comments that could
have been (but have not been) proposed during the discussion. The
Introduction is a very important part in a "book" like this as it
"encapsulates"
all the contributions. I can imagine many different "Introductions" under which
I would not like to see my words.

But I think that there is much more value added by your "editing" of the
discussions. For all of us, list members, that discussion was until now
only a "flow" of messages - we read all or some, we have contributed or not
to the flow. But in 6 months we all would have forgotten it. Now it is
"crystallized" and can be used for different purposes.

As this list has Archives (and we all know that!) one can say that what goes
in the "book" is what is already in the Archives. And that is true. But not
completely, as the Archives are not user friendly and one gets lost. With
the book all fits in a different and clearer organization.

As this list is not moderated, and no one is directing, managing or controlling
the discussions, I think that what has emerged - and the book you have
edited captures - is the result of... self-organization at work. And yes,
Harrison,
you have proved your point with a vengeance, I think...In self-organization,
and with the help from the editors, we all have co-created something that is
greater then the individual contributions of each one of us.

I am not sure if this is the best book that can be used to complement the
Guide, in the sense that other discussions of different subjects that happened
in this list and elsewhere could also be interesting. But precisely you took
the lead that eventually can be used by us or others in the future to
edit future discussions...

I belong to some other lists and quite often I feel that it is a pity that
no one
has the initiative to edit in a permanent "book" some interesting discussions
that self-organize there. How many "books" do you know that have been the
result
of so many fruitful dialogues that occur so often in lists everywhere? So maybe
you two should "copy-right" the concept and sell it to other lists ;-) ;-)

When I was reading the "book" (in fact I have printed it and put it in "book
format") I was noticing some interesting posts and comments that were not
clear to me during the list dialogue. And I have discovered that I would
like to
comment on some of them eventually initiating a second iteration of the
conversation.

Indeed I felt that I was in the evening of a two day OST, having participated
in some of the break-out discussions, and now an edited version
of the summaries of all the sessions has been distributed.
We all have now the possibility of reading them and maybe tomorrow
morning that will be reflected in some new issues to add to the groups
already scheduled or in new ideas to introduce in the discussions.

What do you all think about that? Is the subject finished?
Or shall we initiate a second iteration of the conversation that can
eventually
give origin in some months to a new Non Guide, where other topics, positions
and co-authors can then be included?

One final point: Michael and Chris have proposed a "virtual book" to be
available
for free on the Internet - an e-book if you prefer. But isn't the output
interesting
enough to be useful for a "real book"? And would any publisher be interested?
What do you think?

Warm regards to all

Artur

PS: You have probably noticed that I have not referred to the copyright
question.
But that is a different (and much less interesting) animal. I will come to
that in
a different post... But of course you can use my posts as you wish - after all
they are already published in the net.

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