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At 10:31 22-01-2002, Michael Herman wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>chris corrigan and i have just finished a
little project that we want to share with you because, after all, it's
yours. (...) in late 2001, i got a bit behind on list emails. then
i managed to catch up, all except for what seemed really juicy... all of
that self-org and spirit stuff. (...) i didn't even make it through the
first message before i went cutting and pasting the contents into a word
document..</blockquote><br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>we wrote a bit more of an explanation in a
short introduction, minus this gripping little tale, but the rest is all
OSLIST... and like they said, the stuff is gold, well yellow, for
community, anyway... and seems the perfect simple balance to the user's
guide for running short training sessions and browsing the night before
openings. something to give new recruits and anxious veterans a
dose of the depth that is this practice and this community and this
learning list. </blockquote><br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>and now the only question is what to do with
the rest...</blockquote><br>
<br>
Dear Michael and Chris (and other list members):<br>
<br>
Congratulations! You have done a marvelous job. A lot of hard,
spirited<br>
nights of work - but really worthwhile! I am very impressed by the
work<br>
that I imagine that goes with it, but also by the final
"product" - the "book"<br>
as it has been called.<br>
<br>
Last weekend I saw a French film ("L' histoire d' Amelie")
who's action is <br>
in a typical quarter of Paris - from the magazines, I know that the
people <br>
of that quarter are very happy and they say "we are all there".
And even <br>
myself, that seldom went to that particular quarter, I feel that I am
<br>
also, if not in the film, at least in some cafes and metro stations that
<br>
appeared in it.<br>
<br>
I had the same sensation reading your compilation. The OSlist is
"there" <br>
in a very clear way - with its open dialogues, some of the main
subjects<br>
many of us care about, our diversity of origins and opinions, many fresh
<br>
insights, etc. The list is "there" but more artistically edited
like in a good <br>
movie. Congratulations and thanks.<br>
<br>
Because of personal (and sad!) reasons I have not followed the dialogue
<br>
about self-organization in detail, especially as it soon split in many
<br>
sub-threads. I think I read only half of the posts when they have
been<br>
initially posted. I have marked some others to read later and even three
to<br>
comment later, but probably I would never find the time to go back to
that <br>
anyhow.<br>
<br>
And then I received the edited version and it was really amazing - to
found<br>
the posts I have read, but specially many pearls I have missed, all
organized<br>
with new headings (chapters) much more clear and to the point then
the<br>
initial sub-threads - namely the following one (that I would like
some day to <br>
understand the meaning of): "Self-Organization is What Consciousness
<br>
(Spirit) Does" :-) <br>
<br>
I also found you have discovered a marvelous ending and I have discovered
a<br>
Thanksgiving were I can participate: "Thank you space, for
everything".<br>
Very Taoist indeed. And I wonder if Aine Corrigan should not be
included<br>
as one of the co-authors. After all she has proved once again to be a
skilled<br>
OST practitioner ;-) And in what concerns OST, age is not a problem<br>
and there is no certification required ;-)<br>
<br>
I also liked very much the Introduction and suggest that you don't change
it.<br>
Specially don't change it to include references or comments that could
<br>
have been (but have not been) proposed during the discussion. The <br>
Introduction is a very important part in a "book" like this as
it "encapsulates" <br>
all the contributions. I can imagine many different
"Introductions" under which<br>
I would not like to see my words.<br>
<br>
But I think that there is much more value added by your
"editing" of the <br>
discussions. For all of us, list members, that discussion was until
now<br>
only a "flow" of messages - we read all or some, we have
contributed or not<br>
to the flow. But in 6 months we all would have forgotten it. Now it is
<br>
"crystallized" and can be used for different purposes.<br>
<br>
As this list has Archives (and we all know that!) one can say that what
goes <br>
in the "book" is what is already in the Archives. And that is
true. But not<br>
completely, as the Archives are not user friendly and one gets lost.
With<br>
the book all fits in a different and clearer organization.<br>
<br>
As this list is not moderated, and no one is directing, managing or
controlling<br>
the discussions, I think that what has emerged - and the book you have
<br>
edited captures - is the result of... self-organization at work. And yes,
Harrison, <br>
you have proved your point with a vengeance, I think...In
self-organization,<br>
and with the help from the editors, we all have co-created something that
is <br>
greater then the individual contributions of each one of us.<br>
<br>
I am not sure if this is the best book that can be used to complement the
<br>
Guide, in the sense that other discussions of different subjects that
happened <br>
in this list and elsewhere could also be interesting. But precisely you
took<br>
the lead that eventually can be used by us or others in the future
to<br>
edit future discussions...<br>
<br>
I belong to some other lists and quite often I feel that it is a pity
that no one<br>
has the initiative to edit in a permanent "book" some
interesting discussions<br>
that self-organize there. How many "books" do you know that
have been the result<br>
of so many fruitful dialogues that occur so often in lists everywhere? So
maybe<br>
you two should "copy-right" the concept and sell it to other
lists ;-) ;-) <br>
<br>
When I was reading the "book" (in fact I have printed it and
put it in "book <br>
format") I was noticing some interesting posts and comments that
were not <br>
clear to me during the list dialogue. And I have discovered that I would
like to <br>
comment on some of them eventually initiating a second iteration of the
<br>
conversation. <br>
<br>
Indeed I felt that I was in the evening of a two day OST, having
participated <br>
in some of the break-out discussions, and now an edited version<br>
of the summaries of all the sessions has been distributed.<br>
We all have now the possibility of reading them and maybe tomorrow<br>
morning that will be reflected in some new issues to add to the groups
<br>
already scheduled or in new ideas to introduce in the discussions. <br>
<br>
What do you all think about that? Is the subject finished?<br>
Or shall we initiate a second iteration of the conversation that can
eventually <br>
give origin in some months to a new Non Guide, where other topics,
positions<br>
and co-authors can then be included?<br>
<br>
One final point: Michael and Chris have proposed a "virtual
book" to be available<br>
for free on the Internet - an e-book if you prefer. But isn't the output
interesting<br>
enough to be useful for a "real book"? And would any publisher
be interested?<br>
What do you think?<br>
<br>
Warm regards to all<br>
<br>
Artur<br>
<br>
PS: You have probably noticed that I have not referred to the copyright
question.<br>
But that is a different (and much less interesting) animal. I will come
to that in<br>
a different post... But of course you can use my posts as you wish -
after all<br>
they are already published in the net.<br>
<br>
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