OST: A User's NON-Guide - some comments

[Michael Herman]

hello artur, this is just great.  really enjoyed your postings on the
nonguide.... the bits about amelie, which inspired a little bit more in
the final version of introduction... the surprise bit... perfect! and
exactly my thinking... i wanted to share it with authors, but figured
that they wouldn't know if they wanted to participate or not in this
until they saw the reactions of thecommunity... that conversation is
some of the gift, surprise i/we wanted to give... yes, and the surprises
of what we can do next... some of which written up in metanet now...
appreciated, too, your comment about the introduction as something
you're willing to follow from.  glad.  not sure at all that it is the
right non-guide, or the only. it is a good enough one.  and i think it's
important as community document, allowing some of what i say in the new
metanet topic re; training.  but it is here, as you say.  most
important, probably, is that it is soooooo unfinished... and
unfinishable.... a constant beacon and nagging.  inviting more
conversation, which is just what we want.  found myself wishing i could
add the peace converstion just now, and then wondering if that peace
conversation or some other gems wouldn't pop out in any group after
reading through some of the non-guide.  hope so. like training workshop
seeds.  as you say about another nonguide, you remind me that there are
hundreds of non-guides out there in the archives and yet to be written.
that it's all nonguide.  all open space.  maybe then this makes it hard
to publish any of it on paper.  or easier.  not sure.  am more
interested in what this allows us to do with non-convergence and
non-trainings than in publishing.  so i hope you'll have a look at what
i've posted in the new metanet topic.  thanks again, michael





"Artur F. Silva" wrote:
>
> At 10:31 22-01-2002, Michael Herman wrote:
>
> > chris corrigan and i have just finished a little project that we
> > want to share with you because, after all, it's yours. (...) in late
> > 2001, i got a bit behind on list emails.  then i managed to catch
> > up, all except for what seemed really juicy... all of that self-org
> > and spirit stuff. (...) i didn't even make it through the first
> > message before i went cutting and pasting the contents into a word
> > document..
>
> > we wrote a bit more of an explanation in a short introduction, minus
> > this gripping little tale, but the rest is all OSLIST... and like
> > they said, the stuff is gold, well yellow, for community, anyway...
> > and seems the perfect simple balance to the user's guide for running
> > short training sessions and browsing the night before openings.
> > something to give new recruits and anxious veterans a dose of the
> > depth that is this practice and this community and this learning
> > list.
>
> > and now the only question is what to do with the rest...
>
> Dear Michael and Chris (and other list members):
>
> Congratulations! You have done a marvelous job. A lot of hard,
> spirited
> nights of work - but really worthwhile! I am very impressed by the
> work
> that I imagine that goes with it, but also by the final "product" -
> the "book"
> as it has been called.
>
> Last weekend I saw a French film ("L' histoire d' Amelie") who's
> action is
> in a typical quarter of Paris - from the magazines, I know that the
> people
> of that quarter are very happy and they say "we are all there". And
> even
> myself, that seldom went to that particular quarter, I feel that I am
> also, if not in the film, at least in some cafes and metro stations
> that
> appeared in it.
>
> I had the same sensation reading your compilation. The OSlist is
> "there"
> in a very clear way - with its open dialogues, some of the main
> subjects
> many of us care about, our diversity of origins and opinions, many
> fresh
> insights, etc. The list is "there" but more artistically edited like
> in a good
> movie. Congratulations and thanks.
>
> Because of personal (and sad!) reasons I have not followed the
> dialogue
> about self-organization in detail, especially as it soon split in many
>
> sub-threads. I think I read only half of the posts when they have been
> initially posted. I have marked some others to read later and even
> three to
> comment later, but probably I would never find the time to go back to
> that
> anyhow.
>
> And then I received the edited version and it was really amazing - to
> found
> the posts I have read, but specially many pearls I have missed, all
> organized
> with new headings (chapters) much more clear and to the point then the
> initial sub-threads - namely the following one  (that I would like
> some day to
> understand the meaning of): "Self-Organization is What Consciousness
> (Spirit) Does" :-)
>
> I also found you have discovered a marvelous ending and I have
> discovered a
> Thanksgiving were I can participate: "Thank you space, for
> everything".
> Very Taoist indeed. And I wonder if Aine Corrigan should not be
> included
> as one of the co-authors. After all she has proved once again to be a
> skilled
> OST practitioner ;-) And in what concerns OST, age is not a problem
> and there is no certification required ;-)
>
> I also liked very much the Introduction and suggest that you don't
> change it.
> Specially don't change it to include references or comments that could
>
> have been (but have not been) proposed during the discussion. The
> Introduction is a very important part in a "book" like this as it
> "encapsulates"
> all the contributions. I can imagine many different "Introductions"
> under which
> I would not like to see my words.
>
> But I think that there is much more value added by your "editing" of
> the
> discussions. For all of us, list members, that discussion was until
> now
> only a "flow" of messages - we read all or some, we have contributed
> or not
> to the flow. But in 6 months we all would have forgotten it. Now it is
>
> "crystallized" and can be used for different purposes.
>
> As this list has Archives (and we all know that!) one can say that
> what goes
> in the "book" is what is already in the Archives. And that is true.
> But not
> completely, as the Archives are not user friendly and one gets lost.
> With
> the book all fits in a different and clearer organization.
>
> As this list is not moderated, and no one is directing, managing or
> controlling
> the discussions, I think that what has emerged - and the book you have
>
> edited captures - is the result of... self-organization at work. And
> yes, Harrison,
> you have proved your point with a vengeance, I think...In
> self-organization,
> and with the help from the editors, we all have co-created something
> that is
> greater then the individual contributions of each one of us.
>
> I am not sure if this is the best book that can be used to complement
> the
> Guide, in the sense that other discussions of different subjects that
> happened
> in this list and elsewhere could also be interesting. But precisely
> you took
> the lead that eventually can be used by us or others in the future to
> edit future discussions...
>
> I belong to some other lists and quite often I feel that it is a pity
> that no one
> has the initiative to edit in a permanent "book" some interesting
> discussions
> that self-organize there. How many "books" do you know that have been
> the result
> of so many fruitful dialogues that occur so often in lists everywhere?
> So maybe
> you two should "copy-right" the concept and sell it to other lists ;-)
> ;-)
>
> When I was reading the "book" (in fact I have printed it and put it in
> "book
> format") I was noticing some interesting posts and comments that were
> not
> clear to me during the list dialogue. And I have discovered that I
> would like to
> comment on some of them eventually initiating a second iteration of
> the
> conversation.
>
> Indeed I felt that I was in the evening of a two day OST, having
> participated
> in some of the break-out discussions, and now an edited version
> of the summaries of all the sessions has been distributed.
> We all have now the possibility of reading them and maybe tomorrow
> morning that will be reflected in some new issues to add to the groups
>
> already scheduled or in new ideas to introduce in the discussions.
>
> What do you all think about that? Is the subject finished?
> Or shall we initiate a second iteration of the conversation that can
> eventually
> give origin in some months to a new Non Guide, where other topics,
> positions
> and co-authors can then be included?
>
> One final point: Michael and Chris have proposed a "virtual book" to
> be available
> for free on the Internet - an e-book if you prefer. But isn't the
> output interesting
> enough to be useful for a "real book"? And would any publisher be
> interested?
> What do you think?
>
> Warm regards to all
>
> Artur
>
> PS: You have probably noticed that I have not referred to the
> copyright question.
> But that is a different (and much less interesting) animal. I will
> come to that in
> a different post... But of course you can use my posts as you wish -
> after all
> they are already published in the net.

--

Michael Herman
300 West North Avenue #1105
Chicago IL 60610
312-280-7838 voice
312-280-7837 fax

http://www.michaelherman.com
...an invitation.

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>From  Wed Jan 30 22:30:28 2002
Message-Id: <WED.30.JAN.2002.223028.0100.>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:30:28 +0100
Reply-To: florianfischer at ff-wey.com
To: OSLIST <OSLIST at LISTSERV.BOISESTATE.EDU>
From: florian fischer <florianfischer at ff-wey.com>
Subject: Re: G-d
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"Douglas D. Germann, Sr." schrieb:

> Jeff--
>
> What
> does it mean to write "G-d"?
>
>
>

douglas,
i suppose jeff will give you an answer
basing on his knowledge of jewish tradition.

meanwhile
let me try an answer  basing on my passion
about wording, typing, lettering:

what and why is that between,
between capital-G and small-d ?
it is the socalled hyphen
capital-G and small-d are hyphenated
which is
they are as well separated
as they are connected
which seems to be a miracle.
obviously there is something
between the two letters
perhaps hidden behind the hyphen
something which wants to stay hidden
as a secret ?
we may suppose it could be something
like an o, which we know as a circle
that we know as the best framing
to let appear self-organized creation.
we are free to think about putting in an o
rembering on THE creation,
but we should not do it in writing,
only in thinking, but writing a hyphe
as a lettermark which is pushing us
to add something of ourselves
when there is a need
which could be as well only a dash.

florian

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