[OSList] help with the formatting of the OSLIST when it arrives in my Mach Mail programme

Romy Shovelton romy.shovelton at gmail.com
Tue Jan 26 02:14:23 PST 2021 

Hello Harold, 

It was SO lovely to see you and be with you at the weekend. The person who is behind so much work to keep us all in touch via the OSLIST… and with us once again, helping with all sorts of technical magic. Thanks again.

I wonder if you might be able to help me with the way that the OSLIST arrives into my Mach Mail programme? As you see below…. I receive this list with duplicates of conversations through it + lots of other general stuff… making it hard to pick out the thread of a conversation. 

Suzanne showed me how she receives OSLIST in her gmail account - in wonderfully clear threads, where you can see responses to a particular posting, and not extraneous bla bla. I tried logging into gmail, rather than my Mach Mail programme, and unfortunately did not receive the OSLIST in the way that Suzanne does.

Do you have any clues about what I might do?

Thanks again SO much

Romy


Romy Shovelton

Executive Director
Wikima and the 5* Tyddyn Retreat
Mid Wales Venue & Holiday Cottages

www.wikima.com
www.walescottageandvenue.com
Facebook: Tyddyn Retreat
Twitter: @MidWalesRetreat
Instagram: tyddynretreat

romy.shovelton at gmail.com
romy at walescottageandvenue.com
romy at wikima.com
skype: romy shovelton

+44 (0) 7767 370739
+44 (0) 1686 420725

Tyddyn y Pwll, Carno
Caersws, Powys, SY17 5JU

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: oslist-request at lists.openspacetech.org
> Subject: OSList Digest, Vol 117, Issue 29
> Date: 25 January 2021 at 23:28:45 GMT
> To: oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
> Reply-To: oslist at lists.openspacetech.org
> 
> Send OSList mailing list submissions to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Being present and listen (K?ri Gunnarsson)
>   2. Re: Reply to Jeff Aitken on Four Fold Way of Leadership... It
>      Ain't Working Brother... (Jeff Aitken)
>   3. Re: Reply to Jeff Aitken on Four Fold Way of Leadership... It
>      Ain't Working Brother... (Jeff Aitken)
>   4. Kurs f?r Online Open Space Facilitation (Alexander Schilling)
> 
> From: Kári Gunnarsson <kortleggur at gmail.com <mailto:kortleggur at gmail.com>>
> Subject: [OSList] Being present and listen
> Date: 24 January 2021 at 21:58:52 GMT
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>>
> 
> 
> Dear community
> 
> Thank you all for all the wonderful moments that we have shared over the years.
> 
> I am following up on an action I felt inspired to call at the Peace and High Performance event. 
> 
> If you are interested in the following, then I Invite you to send me a message and let me know, If you want to be added to a public list of group members, I will do so, otherwise I can keep your participation private. I will send an email to people who have asked to be signed up before February 1st looking for a time to open discussion on zoom or similar platform.
> 
> A story from the event: I posted a Question on youth and we discussed how people open space for their peers, it's not really the job of the outsider to come in and tell the Others what to do. After many other discussions an emerging theme was apparent to me, it was the theme of listening. Authentic listening, Deep listening, Appreciative inquiry and listening, Celan Language and listening, Open Space and listening, Presence and listening.... there were some more conversations, reaching out to people in bubbles. crossing divides, being present for the inexperienced, the young. I posted a question on structure. Sociocracy as a structure was proposed. Well, some of us want to continue this conversation. We want to see a structure that is there for people reaching out to people in the many fragmented communities and listen, be it online in one form or another or even in the meat space whan that is safe.         
> 
> Anyhow, we are now putting together a group to build an embracing structure of presence for people who go to different communities for appreciative listening and being present for them to open space in their circle!    
> 
> I am looking forward to your reply, my email address is kortleggur at gmail.com <mailto:kortleggur at gmail.com>
> 
> Best regards
> Kári Gunnarsson
> Iceland / Taiwan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Jeff Aitken <r.jeff.aitken at gmail.com <mailto:r.jeff.aitken at gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Reply to Jeff Aitken on Four Fold Way of Leadership... It Ain't Working Brother...
> Date: 24 January 2021 at 23:26:09 GMT
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list <OSLIST at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSLIST at lists.openspacetech.org>>
> 
> 
> Hi Mark. I appreciate that you express in more detail what you have been sharing in short phrases. I won't say more right now (busy day) but it may be a conversation here. Best to you.
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 2:46 PM Mark Carmel via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>> wrote:
> Jeff,
>  Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply to my post ... predicting the future, toe the party line, rise to the top, do otherwise you go to the bottom... Your reply referred me to the four fold way of leadership to ...speak your truth without blame or judgement...  That's a wonderful warm and fuzzy thought Jeff but it is not practical and it is not practiced in the real world. It is not working. Let's look at the best example of leadership right now in the world. That is America and the outcome of an election. Let's take a close look at the winners who swept all seats of power and have now the total, coveted control and power over the entire government with which to lead.   Do the winners speak their truth (now that they won) without blame or judgment?  Did the winners speak their truth without blame or judgment in order to win?  The answers are very clear Jeff. Hell no.  Speaking your truth with a lot of blame and a lot of judgment is THE way to gain leadership power and control as we've just witnessed. To believe that this is not true is simply naive if one observes real world leadership results. The 2nd point the 4 four fold way makes regarding the principle of speaking your truth without blame or judgment, Is that ...your truth is not THE truth... When you consider how divided America is now around who is telling the truth, do you really think that the winners of the election believe that their truth is not THE truth Jeff?  The four fold way sounds good Jeff, a vision, but not a reality if one faces facts about how and why leaders rise to power.  Tow the party line folks, said another way is as follows ... Respect and obey your leaders and you will rise to the top. Disagree and find faults with your leaders, by sharing your four fold way feelings about what is wrong and what could be better, and you will go downward. Not my truth, THE truth.  Leadership loyalty is THE only way to not put yourself .... and others we try to bring in the safe space.... into harms way.  The rules have changed. And rules is rules.
> MC
> 
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 1:21 AM <oslist-request at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist-request at lists.openspacetech.org>> wrote:
> Send OSList mailing list submissions to
>         oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
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> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Predicting the future...tow the party line and you will
>       rise to the top, disobey and you go to the bottom (Jeff Aitken)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 16:56:01 -0800
> From: Jeff Aitken <r.jeff.aitken at gmail.com <mailto:r.jeff.aitken at gmail.com>>
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
>         <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Predicting the future...tow the party line and
>         you will rise to the top, disobey and you go to the bottom
> Message-ID:
>         <CANNDQebBLGYeLZ_+5T4XVn9TmgAA1=nb6q-8K44NFf89+y1c9Q at mail.gmail.com <mailto:nb6q-8K44NFf89%2By1c9Q at mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Mark, you seem to be feeling a lot of distress. Just wanted to say that,
> and I am glad you are sharing with the open space community. "Speak your
> truth, without blame or judgement" said Angeles Arrien in the Fourfold Way.
> I don't know what else to say.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:08 PM Tony Budak via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>> wrote:
> 
> > I prefer to tow a parallel line of conversation leading to a change of
> > culture.
> >
> > On 1/21/2021 9:15 PM, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote:
> >
> > The future is CLEAR
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OSList mailing list
> > To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
> > To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org>
> > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org>
> > Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org <http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>
> >
> > --
> > Stay Safe & Well, Tony Budak
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OSList mailing list
> > To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
> > To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org>
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> ------------------------------
> 
> End of OSList Digest, Vol 117, Issue 27
> ***************************************
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> From: Jeff Aitken <r.jeff.aitken at gmail.com <mailto:r.jeff.aitken at gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Reply to Jeff Aitken on Four Fold Way of Leadership... It Ain't Working Brother...
> Date: 25 January 2021 at 06:27:33 GMT
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list <OSLIST at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSLIST at lists.openspacetech.org>>
> 
> 
> Hi Mark. On reflection on your writing, I realized I wanted to go back to memories of US presidential elections since my teens. I can count seven elections since the start of the 1970s that left me in utter despair. I felt certain that it was "curtains" for everything I hold dear. I was literally depressed and confused for weeks or months, and motivated eventually to raise my voice for my values.
> 
> My guess is that those seven elections were happy occasions for you. I could be mistaken. 
> 
> My reason for raising this is that I just had an insight that my greatest fears did not come true. There were many things that I protested vigorously, and there was much suffering during these five decades (during all of the presidencies) that I do not discount. And some factors insulated me personally from some of those troubles. 
> 
> It may be that some of us are particularly passionate about politics, and others have other reasons to care deeply about one outcome or another. And maybe the stakes are higher now than they were in previous years, but I'm not sure if that is true.
> 
> I don't exactly know why it occurred to me to look back like this. But I noticed that this election had maybe a similar impact on you as those seven had on me. So I just honor that you are feeling that way and you express it here. I don't have a clue what else to say.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 3:26 PM Jeff Aitken <r.jeff.aitken at gmail.com <mailto:r.jeff.aitken at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi Mark. I appreciate that you express in more detail what you have been sharing in short phrases. I won't say more right now (busy day) but it may be a conversation here. Best to you.
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 2:46 PM Mark Carmel via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>> wrote:
> Jeff,
>  Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply to my post ... predicting the future, toe the party line, rise to the top, do otherwise you go to the bottom... Your reply referred me to the four fold way of leadership to ...speak your truth without blame or judgement...  That's a wonderful warm and fuzzy thought Jeff but it is not practical and it is not practiced in the real world. It is not working. Let's look at the best example of leadership right now in the world. That is America and the outcome of an election. Let's take a close look at the winners who swept all seats of power and have now the total, coveted control and power over the entire government with which to lead.   Do the winners speak their truth (now that they won) without blame or judgment?  Did the winners speak their truth without blame or judgment in order to win?  The answers are very clear Jeff. Hell no.  Speaking your truth with a lot of blame and a lot of judgment is THE way to gain leadership power and control as we've just witnessed. To believe that this is not true is simply naive if one observes real world leadership results. The 2nd point the 4 four fold way makes regarding the principle of speaking your truth without blame or judgment, Is that ...your truth is not THE truth... When you consider how divided America is now around who is telling the truth, do you really think that the winners of the election believe that their truth is not THE truth Jeff?  The four fold way sounds good Jeff, a vision, but not a reality if one faces facts about how and why leaders rise to power.  Tow the party line folks, said another way is as follows ... Respect and obey your leaders and you will rise to the top. Disagree and find faults with your leaders, by sharing your four fold way feelings about what is wrong and what could be better, and you will go downward. Not my truth, THE truth.  Leadership loyalty is THE only way to not put yourself .... and others we try to bring in the safe space.... into harms way.  The rules have changed. And rules is rules.
> MC
> 
> On Sun, Jan 24, 2021, 1:21 AM <oslist-request at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist-request at lists.openspacetech.org>> wrote:
> Send OSList mailing list submissions to
>         oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         oslist-request at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist-request at lists.openspacetech.org>
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         oslist-owner at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist-owner at lists.openspacetech.org>
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of OSList digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Predicting the future...tow the party line and you will
>       rise to the top, disobey and you go to the bottom (Jeff Aitken)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 16:56:01 -0800
> From: Jeff Aitken <r.jeff.aitken at gmail.com <mailto:r.jeff.aitken at gmail.com>>
> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
>         <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>>
> Subject: Re: [OSList] Predicting the future...tow the party line and
>         you will rise to the top, disobey and you go to the bottom
> Message-ID:
>         <CANNDQebBLGYeLZ_+5T4XVn9TmgAA1=nb6q-8K44NFf89+y1c9Q at mail.gmail.com <mailto:nb6q-8K44NFf89%2By1c9Q at mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Mark, you seem to be feeling a lot of distress. Just wanted to say that,
> and I am glad you are sharing with the open space community. "Speak your
> truth, without blame or judgement" said Angeles Arrien in the Fourfold Way.
> I don't know what else to say.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> On Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 9:08 PM Tony Budak via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>> wrote:
> 
> > I prefer to tow a parallel line of conversation leading to a change of
> > culture.
> >
> > On 1/21/2021 9:15 PM, Mark Carmel via OSList wrote:
> >
> > The future is CLEAR
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OSList mailing list
> > To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
> > To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org>
> > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org>
> > Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org <http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>
> >
> > --
> > Stay Safe & Well, Tony Budak
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OSList mailing list
> > To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
> > To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org>
> > To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org>
> > Past archives can be viewed here:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org <http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of OSList Digest, Vol 117, Issue 27
> ***************************************
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org>
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> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org <http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>
> 
> 
> From: "Alexander Schilling" <alexander.schilling at raumfuer.de <mailto:alexander.schilling at raumfuer.de>>
> Subject: [OSList] Kurs für Online Open Space Facilitation
> Date: 25 January 2021 at 18:21:21 GMT
> To: "'World wide Open Space Technology email list'" <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>>
> 
> 
> Liebe Community,
>  
> wie gut war es doch, Zeit zu in einem Open Space zu haben: einen, zwei oder besser noch Drei Tage. Gerade bei meinem letzten Präsenz Open Space als Teilnehmer schätzte ich das sehr, wirklich, entspannt lange Sessions zu haben. Zumindest, wenn man sich in Präsenz treffen kann.
>  
> Online hingegen gilt: je weniger Zeit vor dem Bildschirm benötigt wird, um wirklich auf den Punkt zu kommen, desto besser. Das geht nicht nur aus den Feedbacks meiner Teilnehmer hervor sondern es ist auch meine Sicht. Und es klappt sehr gut.
>  
> Da ich mich seit 20 Jahren auf kurze Open Spaces spezialisiert habe und sehr viel online Erfahrung habe, dachte ich, dass das der richtige Moment ist, um mein erstes Training  anzubieten: Wenn Du fit in Open Space Moderation bist und wissen willst, wie Dir das auch Online gut gelingen kann, dann ließ gerne weiter. Wenn das nicht auf Dich zutrifft, dann freue ich mich natürlich übers Weitersagen ; ) 
>  
> Herzlich aus Hamburg
> Alexander
>  
> WARUM DER CRASHKURS?
>  
> Du bist bist Open Space Facilitator und brauchst eine Alternative zu Präsenzveranstaltungen? Dann möchte Dich darin unterstützen, dass Du online ein Top Event moderieren kannst. Vorteile der online Variante ist, Du bist:
> schnell + zeitsparend: Du kannst in kurzer Zeit online Open Spaces aufsetzen und weniger Stunden zu eindrucksvollen Ergebnissen kommen  (bis 70 TN, auch bis 300 TN sind mit ein wenig mehr Aufwand vergleichsweise schnell möglich)
> günstig: Du ersparst Dir und Deinen Kunden Logistik- und Reisekosten (die Technik ist günstig)
> krisen- und planungs-sicher: online hast Du Planungssicherheit losgelöst von sich ständig ändernden Auflagen und kannst sofort mit der Arbeit loslegen, anstatt darauf zu warten, dass es endlich wieder so wird, wie früher
> fokussierend:  online Open Spaces fördern das genaue Zuhören und präzise Redebeiträge
> ergebnisstark: selbst in sehr kurzen online-tauglichen Formaten liefern die Teilnehmer beeindruckende Dokumentationen
> WIE GEHEN WIR VOR?
> Kurz gesagt nehme ich Dich von A-Z bei der Hand und versetze Dich mit einem Blick über die Schulter in die Lage, einen online Open Space aufzusetzen und durchzuführen, so dass er gelingt:
> praxisorientiert: Du erlebst live, als Teilnehmer, wie ein online Open Space abläuft
> reflektierend: Du lernst in der Reflektion der Moderation die online spezifischen Gelingensbedingungen und Fallstricke kennen
> nutzerorientiert: "Die Technik hat dem Menschen zu dienen und nicht umgekehrt" Wir nutzen daher exemplarisch zwei Plattformen, die sehr intuitiv nutzbar sind deren Prinzipien auf andere Plattformen übertragbar sind (VideoChat=Zoom, Zusammenarbeit=QiQoChat)
> umsetzungsorientiert: Du bist live dabei, wie ich einen online Open Space von A-Z live aufsetzte, bekommst deine Fragen beantwortet und meine Tipps und Tricks verraten, damit Du ein Top Event machen kannst
> WAS BEKOMMST DU KONKRET
> 2,5 h online Open Space // Business: ein Ticket im Wert von 49€ (am 9.2 17:30-20:00)
> 4h Crashkurs (inkl. 30 min Pause)
> Tickets zu 199-249€ inkl. MwSt. zzgl. Gebühren Es gibt ein limitiertes Kontingent an Frühbuchertickets 
> Warum mit Alexander Schilling
> Kurz, knackig, substanziell. Das geht online besonders gut! Ich habe mich seit 2004 vor allem auf kurze, effiziente Open Space Formate konzentriert und diese gut 100x moderiert und verfeinert. Als Webdesigner bin ich Internetbewohner und der ersten Stunde moderiere meine Workshops seit Jahren online. Meine Erfahrung: Du kannst selbst in 2,5-3,5 Stunden bereits sehr gute Ergebnisse erzielen!
>  
> JETZT INFORMIEREN + ANMELDEN UNTER
> http://bit.ly/CrashkursOS <http://bit.ly/CrashkursOS>
> --------------------<--------{@
> Alexander Schilling
> Open Space Moderator
> Fon +49 40 32 84 51 16
> Mob +49 177 7531168
> https://open-space-moderator.de <https://open-space-moderator.de/>
> www.twitter.com/openspacemode <http://www.twitter.com/openspacemode>
> Osterfelddeich 162 | D-21129 Hamburg
>  
>  
> 
> 
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