[OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention

Mon Aug 13 10:48:31 PDT 2018

In my experience, Robin, every situation is different.  If there was such a
table, I suspect it would have MANY rates.  Kind of like asking, "What is
the going rate for an artist?"  Depends greatly on the artist, the asker,
and many things about the situation and duration of the work/impact
desired.  Sometimes there is already a budget, so quoting prices doesn't
matter and it's more a question of what can be done within that limit.
Other times, there is an emphasis on the quality of the work such that any
price is okay as long as everything goes well.  Sometimes it surprises
clients that there should be preparation time, it's not just a technical
task we show up for the day of the meeting/event.

If there's any rule at all for me, it might be that the conversation needs
to focus first on what's happening, what's desired and expected, what's
already decided and where there might be uncertainty or complete unknowns.
All of these things in terms of the context, the leadership/sponsorhip, the
invitation, invitation list, logistics, documentation or otherwise keeping
things going, AND in terms of budget, previous experience with OS or other
facilitators.  The tricky part, in my experience, is that the most
important work often happens in the earliest conversations, before anyone
agrees to pay anything.  So it's a bit of line to walk, helping them
see/understand the value but not spending too much time/energy before
there's a commitment.  And that line is different with every potential and
situation.

I once had a first meeting with a leader and her board chair.  They decided
against doing the "event" we'd discussed, but she said she wanted to pay me
something, anyway.  Turns out we'd opened enough space in our first
conversation that she'd gotten to raise the issues that mattered most and
gotten important "action" on them.  So we agreed on a fee and I sent her an
invoice.  What I take from this and some of the previous stories in this
thread is that we need to be quoting for their value not our time.  I
estimate days, but I share more and less of that calculation as needed in
any situation.  I try to keep the focus on what we need to do, toward
achieving what large and important purpose, with no guarantees or promises
to control the group, for what total fee.  And sometimes the "daily rate"
is quite high.  Then, having agreed to that fee, I spend whatever time I
find is needed.  So any quoted rate may or may not end up being the actual
rate earned.  With experience and with the learning we do in the first
conversation(s), focused on the work not the fee, we can do pretty well
with the estimating.

Speaking of invoices, I guess the one other "rule" I have is that once we
have that initial conversation and agree on some scope of engagement and
fee amount, with almost every client, that fee is billed in two parts.  The
first half is billed and payable immediately, the second half plus expenses
is billed upon completion.  Sometimes the plane ticket gets rolled into the
first invoice.  This accomplishes a lot of useful things.  One of which is
that it de-emphasizes contracting that often has a legalistic, us-them,
and/or guarantees flavor to it and emphasizes, instead, real action.  When
they say, "Book a ticket and send the first invoice," we all know it's
really game on, going to happen.  Another is that in the most complex,
energy-intensive situations, which tend to be the higher fees, when I show
up, only half my pay feels "at risk."  It feels like my client and I go
into the unknown of the opening circle with more balance in the risk and
relationship.

Geoff Bellman, in his book, "The Consultant's Calling," has a little bit on
this topic.  The line I remember best and use from time to time is, "I'd
like to make/earn/bill $____ for this work."  It's not about imposing a fee
structure.  It's maybe not up to the consultant at all.  But there is also
sense of "This is what I think this is worth" and "This is what I'd feel
good about trading for the energy I think this is going to take."  Implicit
in the latter is some expectation of the energy that'll be required.  And
if that quoted price is outside of what's expected, there are several lines
to pursue in the conversation that follows.  Often, I propose a range, as
well, which gives me some wiggle room, because we never really know what
we're walking into.  It's nice to make a little extra when the going gets
rough in preparations or the work proves especially valuable and it's nice
to leave a little on the table when things go easy or maybe unsettling
things turn up at the end.

So maybe there are at least two questions inside of your question, Robin...
How much do you think clients will pay for our work (how/how much do they
value our work)?  AND how much do you like to get paid for doing this kind
of work?  And then, for what sorts of clients, issues, purposes, places,
etc.  And then, what do we do when the two numbers are different?  Or when
your value and mine are perceived as equal by a client out facilitator
shopping, but each us wants to get paid something different?

Michael

--

Michael Herman
Michael Herman Associates
312-280-7838 (mobile)

http://MichaelHerman.com
http://OpenSpaceWorld.org

On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 10:14 AM, Robin Muretisch, Facilitative Insights,
LLC via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:

> Hi.  I’ve recently started my own facilitation business, coming from many
> years in a corporate environment.  Having a reference for going rates would
> be helpful, to ensure I’m charging clients appropriately.  I’ve scoured
> OpenSpaceWorld.org (amazingly helpful site!!) but can’t find anything on
> rates.  Is there a resource you could point me to (on that site or
> elsewhere) that provides going rates for Open Space Facilitation in various
> regions of the world/countries?  Thanks.
>
>
>
> Robin D. H. Muretisch, CPF, MBA, CPA
>
> robin at facinsights.com  |  770.371.5874  |  [image:
> cid:image005.jpg at 01D40887.3C7F2640]
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-muretisch/>
>
> [image: facinsightslogo - FULL]
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* OSList <oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org> *On Behalf Of *David
> Smith via OSList
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 12, 2018 11:19 PM
> *To:* 'World wide Open Space Technology email list' <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>
> *Cc:* imaginac at bigpond.net.au
>
> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space
> further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention
>
>
>
> Hi Harrison and Rob,
>
> I similarly put in a quote for making a multimedia video/presentation for
> an environmental engineering company. The project manager contacted me and
> said I was far and away the best qualified person for the job but my quote
> was far and away the lowest – would I consider doubling it to avoid
> embarrassing the others...
>
> What can you say?
>
> David Smith
>
>
>
>
>
> Dr David Smith
> BSc(Hons) PhD FRSA
> Trading as imaginACTION
>
> 50 Sweyn Street
> Balwyn North
> Victoria   3104
> AUSTRALIA
>
> t +613 9857 8688
> m 0411 444 048
> david at imaginaction.net.au
> www.imaginaction.net.au
>
>
> iA
>
> imaginACTION
> Winner 2016 Victorian Community History Award
>
> for Historical Interpretation
>
> *Duldig Studio Documentaries DVD*
>
>
>
> Overall  Winner,
> Australian Achiever Awards
> * Victorian TV, Film, Audio and Video*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* OSList [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
> <oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org>] *On Behalf Of *R Chaffe via
> OSList
> *Sent:* 13 August, 2018 9:04 AM
> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
> *Cc:* R Chaffe
> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space
> further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention
>
>
>
> Harrison, yes.
>
>
>
> On the other hand a client almost demanded that I increase my fee by 30%.
> My comment was we had a contract and I intended to keep to the agreed
> cost.  The underlying issue was that my event had been so successful that
> it made other similar events look very expensive.  Yet all that happened
> was that the process gave voice to all present.
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>
> On 13 Aug 2018, at 12:41 am, Harrison Owen via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> Rob – you have identified one of the most curious aspects of dealing with
> clients and/or potential clients regarding Open Space. It’s too simple.
> Couldn’t possibly happen, and doesn’t cost enough. I had one (major)
> corporate client who told me to double my fee otherwise, he said, he
> couldn’t possibly get the contract through the front office. I did what he
> asked and always felt rather guilty about it all. But he was very happy,
> and of course the Open Space “worked” as usual. For obvious reasons all
> names are withheld to protect the innocent and gullible J
>
>
>
> ho
>
>
>
> *From:* OSList [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
> <oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org>] *On Behalf Of *R Chaffe via
> OSList
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 11, 2018 10:02 PM
> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
> *Cc:* R Chaffe
> *Subject:* Re: [OSList] Is there experience in developing Open Space
> further in organizations and networks after the initial intervention
>
>
>
> Harrison, the process is so comfortable ie sitting in circles, speaking
> when there is something to say, listening to others, keeping our minds open
> to insights and differences etc.  Yes we do it all the time!  Therein lies
> an issue for those looking for the “silver” bullet from “outside” as the
> promise we can make is for an opportunity to explore issues and
> opportunities associated with a particular question we have little control
> on what might come and we have faith in the community of concern will have
> the best ways of dealing with their concern.  Sometimes it is a “road to
> Damascus experience and most of the time it is an insight that needs to be
> explored.   This raises another issue for those who think the one meeting
> will be all that is required and blindly race into the future thinking that
> change is something that others do.  Opening the space is more a process
> than an event and seeing / believing in this is one of the main stays of
> Open Space along with the faith that within the community of concern we
> have the power to implement insights and directions gained from empowering
> the community to “live”.
>
> Regards
>
> Rob
>
>
> On 12 Aug 2018, at 5:09 am, Jan Hoglund via OSList <
> oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your reflections Harrison!
>
> Rachel Naomi Remen also speaks about 'who and what' we already are:
>
> "The power to repair the world is already in you."
> "In befriending life, we do not make things happen according to our own
> design. We uncover something that is already happening in us and around us
> and create conditions that enable it. Everything is moving toward its place
> of wholeness. Befriending life requires that we listen for that potential
> which is trying to actualize itself over time. … It is not about mastering
> life, controlling it or exerting our will over it, no matter how well
> intentioned our will may be. … It means listening to life from the place in
> us that is connected to the wholeness around us. The place in us that is
> also whole."
> —Rachel Naomi Remen, My Grandfather's Blessings
>
> I assume this is somewhat in line with your thinking? Maybe 'blessing' a
> space, or an organization, is a way to open it further? And it opens
> yourself. Just a thought.
>
> Thanks again,
> /Jan Höglund, Sweden
>
>
>
>
>
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