[OSList] Fwd: Hope Never Dies!

Marai Kiele genuine-contact at joyful-together.com
Sat Apr 7 01:15:39 PDT 2018


Dear Nick,

I am very appreciative of you writing openly on this list, after the conversations that happened beforehand!

I went over to your document and made some comments on the process. 
Found a sense of „this process needs to be controlled to have a good outcome“ at several places.

Since a while I am mostly contemplating on your introduction to the twist. 
You write:

	"I’ve added a twist with the inclusion of a pre-event process that gives the sponsors / organizers a little more control over the agenda."

Would you elaborate about the benefit of the sponsor / organiser having control over the agenda?

And how, „having control over the agenda“ and the basic intentions of OST (i.e. trusting the people and their innate wisdom) go together for you?
They don’t go well together for me.

Let me make this clearer with an analogy:

	There is red wine. There is coke. 
	There are many people who like one or the other. 
	There are people who like both, at different times.

	There are also people who like mixing those two.
	(I tried it once when I was a teenager.)

Many of those who like red wine will probably shutter imagining such a mix. Especially when imagining a really good red wine plus coke, in equal proportion.
And still, it’s an official drink, it even has a Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalimotxo

If you offered someone such a mix, would you call it „red whine with a twist“?

I suggest you create a name that is showing more openly what you are doing with the twist.
"Open Space and Control" or a completely new name.

With curiosity for your perspective, 
Marai

PS: As a side note, to understand this conversation better (and because I only re-joined this list a short while ago): 
Have you been on this list before or did you just join after the topic came up? 




> Am 06.04.2018 um 14:30 schrieb Nick Martin via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>:
> 
> Hi everybody!
> 
> Thank you all so much for your excellent feedback. I've been watching with enormous interest.
> 
> I've just had a great Skype with Bhav where he was kind enough to take me through in more detail where my rendition of Open Space is veering from the traditional. It was incredibly enlightening (thanks again Bhav).
> 
> For me, it's critical I get this right for readers of my website who are far less experienced than your good selves so I'm committed to changing it.
> 
> Bhav suggested that I might create an editable Google Doc of a new draft and share it with you for comments and edits. I thought that a wonderful idea! Here it is and I promise to publish whatever we end up with ... assuming it's clean :)
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ufIsy0BQvIqlRUbW0FAyXHGV0IKw3VdDT8L91RIJJU8/edit?usp=sharing <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ufIsy0BQvIqlRUbW0FAyXHGV0IKw3VdDT8L91RIJJU8/edit?usp=sharing>
> 
> Naturally the Law of Two Feet very much applies so please don't feel obligated. All input and feedback is very much appreciated.
> 
> 
>  
>  
> Nick Martin
> WorkshopBank <http://workshopbank.com/?utm_source=wisestamp&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=emailsig>
> m: +45 42 47 00 74 <tel:+45%2042%2047%2000%2074> | e: nick at workshopbank.com <mailto:nick at workshopbank.com> | w: workshopbank.com <http://workshopbank.com/?utm_source=wisestamp&utm_medium=signature&utm_campaign=emailsig> <https://www.facebook.com/workshopbank>  <https://twitter.com/workshopbank>  <https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickmartn>
> 
> 
> On 04/04/2018 16:37, Dan Mezick via OSList wrote:
>> “CFCF” (control for control freaks) might be a more appropriate name. Either that or “Project Management”. 
>> 
>> with a twist, of course.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Apr 4, 2018, at 10:11 AM, Peggy Holman via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>> wrote:
>> 
>>> I see the site has a contact page: https://workshopbank.com/contact <https://workshopbank.com/contact>
>>> 
>>> Anyone care to give them some feedback and request they stop calling this thing Open Space with a twist?
>>> 
>>> Peggy Holman 
>>> 425-746-6274
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> 
>>>> From: Harrison Owen via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>>
>>>> Date: April 4, 2018 at 6:40:52 AM PDT
>>>> To: "'World wide Open Space Technology email list'" <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>>
>>>> Cc: Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net <mailto:hhowen at verizon.net>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [OSList] Hope Never Dies!
>>>> Reply-To: World wide Open Space Technology email list <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>>
>>>> 
>>>> This is not the first time for this conversation… The simple truth: Old habits die very hard. The habit of thinking/hoping/wishing/knowing that somebody is in charge doesn’t play very well in Open Space. And so the predictable arrives as prognosticated. Or something.
>>>>  
>>>> Some find this ongoing situation an occasion to defend the process. I can understand the feeling, but I am quite sure it is not worth the energy. Open Space/self organization will do quite well all by itself, as it has for millennia. But there is a sadness, which on occasion expresses itself (at least in me) as anger. I find the ignorance and arrogance of those “meeting planners” to be totally appalling. The massive disrespect of the participants manifest in the presumption that they (the “planning Committee”) alone possess the keys to knowledge and action… that they alone could ask the pertinent questions for which they will supply the only answers, personally or through imported “experts.”  --  is soul numbing. Sad.
>>>>  
>>>> Harrison
>>>>  
>>>> Winter Address
>>>> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>>>> Potomac, MD 20854
>>>> 301-365-2093
>>>>  
>>>> Summer Address
>>>> 189 Beaucauire Ave
>>>> Camden, ME 04843
>>>> 207 763-3261
>>>>  
>>>> Websites
>>>> www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com/>
>>>> www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com/>
>>>>  
>>>> From: OSList [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org>] On Behalf Of Eva P Svensson via OSList
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2018 7:46 AM
>>>> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
>>>> Cc: Eva P Svensson
>>>> Subject: Re: [OSList] Hope Never Dies!
>>>>  
>>>> Don’t call it Open Space  if it’s not Open space!!
>>>>  
>>>> Another thing.. I visited my first ”Bar camp” a week ago. Oh my how frustrated I was with the control! Imagine that we had to stand up and  tell our name and two topic that we would like to talk about (without any obligation to bring them up). After that the ones who wanted to raise a topic - stod up and read what s/he wanted to talk about in the 45 min breakout sessions. Then we were asked to raise our hands if we thought that topic was a good idea  - and not if it’ wasn’t… Just imagine standing up front of all participants with a topic and no one raised their hand…!
>>>> Nothing was said about how to collect the recordings so there was a big confusion about that. Every breakout session was 45 min and when the time was out - the ”facilitator” came in the different rooms and announced that the time was over…
>>>> And of course no circles , just tables. Can you imagine me as being an Open Space ”fundamentalist” being oh so much frustrated…
>>>> Oh my - what an interesting experience …
>>>> Hugs
>>>> :o)
>>>> Eva
>>>> 
>>>> Bästa hälsningar
>>>>  
>>>> Eva P Svensson
>>>>  
>>>> EPS Human Invest AB
>>>> Co owner Genuine Contact Group Inc
>>>>  
>>>> "Verksamhetsutveckling genom människor skapar långsiktigt välmående företag och organisationer"
>>>>  
>>>> Anåsbergsvägen 22, 439 34 ONSALA
>>>> Besöksadress; Norra Allégatan 8, Göteborg
>>>> Tfn: 0300-615 05, Mobil; 0706- 89 85 50
>>>> www.epshumaninvest.se <http://www.epshumaninvest.se/>
>>>> Skype: eva.p.svensson
>>>> Facebook sida: EPS Human Invest AB
>>>> twitter:@EvaPSvensson <twitter:@EvaPSvensson>
>>>>  
>>>> "Jag kan inte lära dig något. Allt jag kan göra är att ställa frågor till dig, och låta dig själv finna svaren." Sokrates
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 3 apr. 2018 kl. 13:20 skrev Bhavesh Patel via OSList <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:oslist at lists.openspacetech.org>>:
>>>>  
>>>> Classic - "There’s a twist in this version with the inclusion of a process that gives the organizers a little more control over the agenda."
>>>> 
>>>> https://workshopbank.com/open-space-technology <https://workshopbank.com/open-space-technology>
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OSList mailing list
>>>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org>
>>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org>
>>>> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org <http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>
>>>>  
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OSList mailing list
>>>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org>
>>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org>
>>>> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org <http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>_______________________________________________
>>> OSList mailing list
>>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org>
>>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org>
>>> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org <http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> OSList mailing list
>> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
>> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org>
>> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org>
>> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org <http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> OSList mailing list
> To post send emails to OSList at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To unsubscribe send an email to OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org <mailto:OSList-leave at lists.openspacetech.org>
> To subscribe or manage your subscription click below:
> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org <http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org>
> Past archives can be viewed here: http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org <http://www.mail-archive.com/oslist@lists.openspacetech.org>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openspacetech.org/pipermail/oslist-openspacetech.org/attachments/20180407/4a9de3a4/attachment.html>


More information about the OSList mailing list