[OSList] self-organization

Michael M Pannwitz mmpannwitz at gmail.com
Fri Jan 3 02:10:32 PST 2014


Dear Paul,
since we are moving in these heady spheres, I just cant help to ask 
whether there is such a thing as truth.
And what happened to my pet theoretical assumption that one of the 
elements in this game is the force of  "selforganisation" (separate from 
me organising my desk or keeping house or us organising a trip or our 
team work or our business)... which does not care what all we do or 
attempt but simply merrily is and acts?

Greetings from Berlin where we have a bout of spring weather unfolding 
its beautiful pattern under the influence, right, of the force of 
selforganisation, I think
mmp

On 03.01.2014 09:30, paul levy wrote:
> HI Marie
>
> I'm suggesting quite the opposite. Truth doesn't always elude us because
> we are both tiny and universal.
>
> Open Space is a form of organisation. It is a minimally structured
> process that enables BOTH selves and the SELF to organise.
>
> Self-organisation is the act of the self, organising. The self is
> microcosmic, realised in the emergent, incarnated individual self, and
> macrocosmic in the holism (whole-ism) of the universe. Diversity lies in
> between, different levels and qualities of consciousness.
>
> As consciousness in our human selves has clearly been evolving, we've
> gone through various stages. Egoism has tended to both harden the self
> and lead to overstructure as those selves attempt to enclose and gain
> control over nature. Minimal structuring and organisation is an antidote
> to overstructure. Open Space Technology is such a minimal structure.
> And, oh yes, a structure it is. A beautiful, eloquent one.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On 2 January 2014 23:37, Marie Ann Östlund <marieann.ostlund at gmail.com
> <mailto:marieann.ostlund at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Thank you Paul. I'm not sure how to respond or if I need to. :)
>
>     Truth with always elude us since we're tiny. But that doesn't mean
>     we shouldn't try to understand. And as you say: "Perhaps it's us
>     self-organising so the self might know it" That's what I'm
>     suggesting. Our experiences might help us towards some more coherence.
>
>     Marie Ann
>
>
>
>     On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:09 PM, paul levy <paul at cats3000.net
>     <mailto:paul at cats3000.net>> wrote:
>
>         Of course, all of these wonderful statements about what
>         self-organisation is, are organising statements !
>
>         Open Space Technology itself, minimal as it is, is an organising
>         process.
>
>         I do enjoy lazy philosophy. It's part of our mysterious
>         humanity. And making statements about self-organisation is like
>         trying to bite your own teeth. You can't grasp this particular
>         spiritual feather because you are the feather, the wind, the
>         blowing and even the story of it.
>
>         Though, perhaps the "self" in self-organisation really does
>         refer to the human self.
>
>         The eye is formed by the light, for the light. Perhaps it's us
>         self-organising so the self might know it.
>
>         Happy New Year
>
>         Paul Levy
>
>
>         On Monday, 30 December 2013, Daniel Mezick wrote:
>
>             Such a rich topic! Thanks to Marie Ann Östlund for opening
>             this topic.
>
>             I am compelled to add the following words (verbatim) from
>             RIGHTS OF MAN, by Thomas Paine. The book is quite an
>             interesting read for folks like us. It tends to confirm and
>             join with all of Harrison's key points.
>
>             My favorite quote in the book:
>             "...society performs for itself almost everything that is
>             ascribed to government."
>
>             When he says [society] in the text, he means groups to
>             people who are self-organizing, according to natural propensity.
>
>             The whole book is here, for free:
>             http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3742/3742-h/3742-h.htm#link2H_4_0007
>
>             Quoting below, from this specific section:
>             http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3742/3742-h/3742-h.htm#link2HCH0001
>
>             Will you pardon my forwardness? I've taken the liberty of
>             bolding a few words for emphasis:
>
>             "So far is it from being true, as has been *pretended*, that
>             the abolition of any formal government is the dissolution of
>             society, that it acts by a contrary impulse, and brings the
>             latter the closer together. All that part of its
>             organisation which it had committed to its government,
>             devolves again upon itself, and acts through its medium.
>             When men, as well from natural instinct as from reciprocal
>             benefits, have habituated themselves to social and civilised
>             life, *there is always enough of its principles in practice
>             to carry them* through any changes they may find necessary
>             or convenient to make in their government. In short, *man is
>             so naturally a creature of society* that it is almost
>             impossible to put him out of it.
>
>             **
>
>             *"Formal government makes but a small part of civilised
>             life*; and when even the best that human wisdom can devise
>             is established, it is a thing more in name and idea than in
>             fact. It is to the great and fundamental principles of
>             society and civilisation—to the common usage universally
>             consented to, and mutually and reciprocally maintained—to
>             the unceasing circulation of interest, which, passing
>             through its million channels, invigorates the whole mass of
>             civilised man—it is to these things, infinitely more than to
>             anything which even the best instituted government can
>             perform, that the safety and prosperity of the individual
>             and of the whole depends.
>
>             *"The more perfect civilisation is, the less occasion has it
>             for government*, because the more does it regulate its own
>             affairs, *and govern itself*; but so contrary is the
>             practice of old governments to the reason of the case, that
>             the expenses of them increase in the proportion they ought
>             to diminish. It is but few general laws that civilised life
>             requires, and those of such common usefulness, that whether
>             they are enforced by the forms of government or not, the
>             effect will be nearly the same.*If we consider what the
>             principles are* that first condense men into society, and
>             what are the motives that regulate their mutual intercourse
>             afterwards, we shall find, by the time we arrive at what is
>             called government, that *nearly the whole of the business is
>             performed by the natural operation of the parts upon each
>             other. *
>
>             "Man, with respect to all those matters, is more a creature
>             of consistency than he is aware, or than governments would
>             wish him to believe. *All the great laws of society are laws
>             of nature.* Those of trade and commerce, whether with
>             respect to the intercourse of individuals or of nations, are
>             laws of mutual and reciprocal interest. They are followed
>             and obeyed, because it is the interest of the parties so to
>             do, and *not on account of any formal laws their governments
>             may impose or interpose. *
>
>
>             ***
>
>
>
>
>
>             On 12/30/13 11:10 AM, Harrison Owen wrote:
>>
>>             Marie – I think you have it just right. But maybe you are
>>             making things a little too complicated, and working a bit
>>             too hard. In my simple mind, things look like this. First:
>>             All systems are self organizing, even those we think we
>>             organize. Second: Organizing a self organizing system is
>>             not only an oxymoron, but stupid – especially when the
>>             system can do a better job all by itself. Third: Whenever
>>             we try to organize a self-organizing system, we inevitably
>>             get it wrong. Our efforts are “clunky.” Even though it may
>>             look great on paper, our efforts are never subtle or
>>             flexible (agile) enough. Fourth: Open Space is simply an
>>             invitation to self organize. In other words it is simply
>>             an invitation to be and do what we are. The fact that it
>>             works as it does has nothing to do with our knowing any
>>             philosophy, principles, practices... It works as it has
>>             for 13.7 billion years, long before we arrived on the
>>             scene, all without our help and assistance. Fifth: the
>>             real value of OST is as a training program enabling us to
>>             experience consciously and intentionally what all too
>>             often passes by unnoticed – Life. It is also a marvelous
>>             laboratory in which we can learn more about our natural
>>             state. And oh yes – all the principles, philosophies,
>>             practices, etc are fun, interesting, and useful to the
>>             extent that they help us to understand with greater
>>             clarity what is really going on. But at the end of the day
>>             they really don’t change a thing. I think.____
>>
>>             __ __
>>
>>             ho ____
>>
>>             __ __
>>
>>             Harrison Owen____
>>
>>             7808 River Falls Dr.____
>>
>>             Potomac, MD 20854____
>>
>>             USA____
>>
>>             __ __
>>
>>             189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)____
>>
>>             Camden, Maine 04843____
>>
>>             __ __
>>
>>             Phone 301-365-2093 <tel:301-365-2093>____
>>
>>             (summer) 207-763-3261 <tel:207-763-3261>____
>>
>>             __ __
>>
>>             www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com%20> ____
>>
>>             www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com%20> (Personal
>>             Website)____
>>
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>
>             --
>
>             Daniel Mezick, President
>
>             New Technology Solutions Inc.
>
>             (203) 915 7248 <tel:(203)%20915%207248> (cell)
>
>             Bio <http://newtechusa.net/dan-mezick/>. Blog
>             <http://newtechusa.net/blog/>. Twitter
>             <http://twitter.com/#%21/danmezick/>.
>
>             Examine my new book:The Culture Game
>             <http://newtechusa.net/about/the-culture-game-book/>: Tools
>             for the Agile Manager.
>
>             Explore Agile Team Training
>             <http://newtechusa.net/services/agile-scrum-training/> and
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>
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>
>
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Michael M Pannwitz
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