[OSList] self-organization

Thu Jan 2 15:37:44 PST 2014

Thank you Paul. I'm not sure how to respond or if I need to. :)

Truth with always elude us since we're tiny. But that doesn't mean we
shouldn't try to understand. And as you say: "Perhaps it's us
self-organising so the self might know it" That's what I'm suggesting. Our
experiences might help us towards some more coherence.

Marie Ann

On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 10:09 PM, paul levy <paul at cats3000.net> wrote:

> Of course, all of these wonderful statements about what self-organisation
> is, are organising statements !
>
> Open Space Technology itself, minimal as it is, is an organising process.
>
> I do enjoy lazy philosophy. It's part of our mysterious humanity. And
> making statements about self-organisation is like trying to bite your own
> teeth. You can't grasp this particular spiritual feather because you are
> the feather, the wind, the blowing and even the story of it.
>
> Though, perhaps the "self" in self-organisation really does refer to the
> human self.
>
> The eye is formed by the light, for the light. Perhaps it's us
> self-organising so the self might know it.
>
> Happy New Year
>
> Paul Levy
>
>
> On Monday, 30 December 2013, Daniel Mezick wrote:
>
>>  Such a rich topic! Thanks to Marie Ann Östlund for opening this topic.
>>
>> I am compelled to add the following words (verbatim) from RIGHTS OF MAN,
>> by Thomas Paine. The book is quite an interesting read for folks like us.
>> It tends to confirm and join with all of Harrison's key points.
>>
>> My favorite quote in the book:
>> "...society performs for itself almost everything that is ascribed to
>> government."
>>
>> When he says [society] in the text, he means groups to people who are
>> self-organizing, according to natural propensity.
>>
>> The whole book is here, for free:
>> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3742/3742-h/3742-h.htm#link2H_4_0007
>>
>> Quoting below, from this specific section:
>> http://www.gutenberg.org/files/3742/3742-h/3742-h.htm#link2HCH0001
>>
>> Will you pardon my forwardness? I've taken the liberty of bolding a few
>> words for emphasis:
>>
>> "So far is it from being true, as has been *pretended*, that the
>> abolition of any formal government is the dissolution of society, that it
>> acts by a contrary impulse, and brings the latter the closer together. All
>> that part of its organisation which it had committed to its government,
>> devolves again upon itself, and acts through its medium. When men, as well
>> from natural instinct as from reciprocal benefits, have habituated
>> themselves to social and civilised life, *there is always enough of its
>> principles in practice to carry them* through any changes they may find
>> necessary or convenient to make in their government. In short, *man is
>> so naturally a creature of society* that it is almost impossible to put
>> him out of it.
>>
>> * "Formal government makes but a small part of civilised life*; and when
>> even the best that human wisdom can devise is established, it is a thing
>> more in name and idea than in fact. It is to the great and fundamental
>> principles of society and civilisation—to the common usage universally
>> consented to, and mutually and reciprocally maintained—to the unceasing
>> circulation of interest, which, passing through its million channels,
>> invigorates the whole mass of civilised man—it is to these things,
>> infinitely more than to anything which even the best instituted government
>> can perform, that the safety and prosperity of the individual and of the
>> whole depends.
>>
>> * "The more perfect civilisation is, the less occasion has it for
>> government*, because the more does it regulate its own affairs, *and
>> govern itself*; but so contrary is the practice of old governments to
>> the reason of the case, that the expenses of them increase in the
>> proportion they ought to diminish. It is but few general laws that
>> civilised life requires, and those of such common usefulness, that whether
>> they are enforced by the forms of government or not, the effect will be
>> nearly the same.* If we consider what the principles are* that first
>> condense men into society, and what are the motives that regulate their
>> mutual intercourse afterwards, we shall find, by the time we arrive at what
>> is called government, that *nearly the whole of the business is
>> performed by the natural operation of the parts upon each other. *
>>
>> "Man, with respect to all those matters, is more a creature of
>> consistency than he is aware, or than governments would wish him to
>> believe. *All the great laws of society are laws of nature.* Those of
>> trade and commerce, whether with respect to the intercourse of individuals
>> or of nations, are laws of mutual and reciprocal interest. They are
>> followed and obeyed, because it is the interest of the parties so to do,
>> and *not on account of any formal laws their governments may impose or
>> interpose. *
>>
>> ***
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/30/13 11:10 AM, Harrison Owen wrote:
>>
>>  Marie – I think you have it just right. But maybe you are making things
>> a little too complicated, and working a bit too hard. In my simple mind,
>> things look like this. First: All systems are self organizing, even those
>> we think we organize. Second: Organizing a self organizing system is not
>> only an oxymoron, but stupid – especially when the system can do a better
>> job all by itself. Third: Whenever we try to organize a self-organizing
>> system, we inevitably get it wrong. Our efforts are “clunky.” Even though
>> it may look great on paper, our efforts are never subtle or flexible
>> (agile) enough. Fourth: Open Space is simply an invitation to self
>> organize. In other words it is simply an invitation to be and do what we
>> are. The fact that it works as it does has nothing to do with our knowing
>> any philosophy, principles, practices... It works as it has for 13.7
>> billion years, long before we arrived on the scene, all without our help
>> and assistance. Fifth: the real value of OST is as a training program
>> enabling us to experience consciously and intentionally what all too often
>> passes by unnoticed – Life. It is also a marvelous laboratory in which we
>> can learn more about our natural state. And oh yes – all the principles,
>> philosophies, practices, etc are fun, interesting, and useful to the extent
>> that they help us to understand with greater clarity what is really going
>> on. But at the end of the day they really don’t change a thing. I think.
>>
>>
>>
>> ho
>>
>>
>>
>> Harrison Owen
>>
>> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>>
>> Potomac, MD 20854
>>
>> USA
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> Camden, Maine 04843
>>
>>
>>
>> Phone 301-365-2093
>>
>> (summer)  207-763-3261
>>
>>
>>
>> www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com%20>
>>
>> www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com%20> (Personal Website)
>>
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>> --
>>
>> Daniel Mezick, President
>>
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>>
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