[OSList] The OST Game

[Daniel Mezick]

So interesting, the very strong connection Harrison and Jenifer sketch 
between [goal seeking] and [control].

I view  [goal seeking] and [control] as related and different.

I can have a goal without attempting to control any one but myself, per 
my previous example: trend following.

Attempts at "control" (a vague term indeed)  are exactly how some free 
agents choose to self-organize themselves, in a space that is truly 
free. Not all of them, to be sure, yet some of them.

Is it controlling....?......to try to influence people away from 
addressing their need for perceived control? Hmmm...


Energetically opposing a strong trend....



...usually results in some difficult learning.






On 10/30/13 6:50 AM, Jenifer Toksvig wrote:
> Re: [OSList] The OST Game Hey Daniel,
>
> >> ... control of one's self / discipline <<
>
> The conversation might be getting skewed, as is so easily the case in 
> threaded discussions like this. (And I had forgotten how much I love 
> them!)
>
> Harrison said: >> Goal seeking systems are purely a figment of our 
> imagination created in a desperate attempt to satisfy our unending 
> (and futile) need for control. <<
>
> You said: >> Yes, and not every goal seeker is a control freak. Some 
> of us are quite the opposite... there is goal-seeking without a 
> controlling spirit. <<
>
> And I say: self-discipline is a form of control. It's goal-seeking. I 
> didn't say it was good or bad :-) but just that it is. We try to 
> control things, including ourselves, in an existence that responds 
> unpredictably. Admittedly, the more information mankind figures out 
> about the world, the more we are able to control things. (I'm not sure 
> I entirely like that, to be honest.)
>
> Still, in this day and age, I can try to exert self-control over my 
> health, and achieve the goal of -- what, a long life? A healthy life? 
> And all kinds of little goals in between. Still, life can screw with me.
>
> I said: >> I don't think it's possible to be goal-oriented and try to 
> exert some kind of control over the process, unless your goal is... to 
> have no goal. <<
>
> Very badly worded, but I meant that I don't think it's a rule in life 
> that you can use control and therefore achieve goals. It happens, but 
> I'm pretty sure it's not a rule.
>
> I also agree that it's human nature to try anyway. And in many ways 
> foolish not to try. The effects of trying is much of the stuff that 
> "whatever happens" is made of.
>
> Me: >> ... being prepared to be surprised is a goal. A sort of 
> wonderfully ridiculous one.
>
> You: >> Yes, and the statement itself is: directive. Wait, whats that 
> doing in OST? <<
>
> Being beautifully, and somewhat amusingly, observational. Like the 
> rest of OST.
>
> J x
>
> *Jenifer Toksvig
> *www.acompletelossforwords.com
>
> *The Copenhagen Interpretation
> *www.thecopenhageninterpretation.co.uk
>
>
>
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-- 

Daniel Mezick, President

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