[OSList] An offering! (Nasty Banks!)

Sun Feb 10 14:47:13 PST 2013

Thank you Chris for this line

Please never try to Open Space for other people bigger than the space you
are willing to open for yourself.

Beautiful reminder

*Jamie Colston*

Enabling young people to design inspiring events and host conversations
that matter to them, empowering them to find their voice and take practical
action towards creating a sustainable, peaceful and equitable world.

*
*

*M: *07909 442006 *E: *jamiecolston at gmail.com* *

*FB/Linked In/Skype:* Jamie Colston  *Twitter*: spearthwarrior

*Nowhere ECL  www.now-here.com/ecl*
*Green Vision Movement  www.greenvisionmovement.org*

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 5:32 PM, Chris Corrigan <chris at chriscorrigan.com>wrote:

> Perhaps the more accurate statement is that bansk are necessary for THIS
> economy, but not other forms of economy.  The question to ask ourselves is
> are we prepared to have THIS economy disappear overnight but having banks
> disappear pronto.  In 2008, the US government followed by others said "no"
> and propped up the failing banks in order to preserve this economic status
> quo.
>
> I am not a fan of this economic status quo, except that I have a pretty
> good life and stable w ay to make a living.  And that is exactly the reason
> why the system is very difficult to change right away.  the consequences
> for many of us are intolerable in the short term.
>
> And today my thoughts are with my friends at Kufunda village in Zimbabwe
> who understand how to live in Open Space with an economy that is in tatters
> and with no banks or other institutions to stabilize their fiscal lives.
>  They are showing that another way is possible, but it is probably not the
> way most of us would be willing to choose.
>
> Gandhi said "it is not the English that hold us, it is us that hold them."
>  It is not the banks that need to change.  It is us, with our blindspots to
> our own privilege  that need to open space in our own lives to see what is
> possible.  Only when I understand that I am the problem, can real change
> start to happen.  This is key for those of us who are Open Space
> facilitators.  Please never try to Open Space for other people bigger than
> the space you are willing to open for yourself.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Brett Barndt <barndtbrett at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> "One thing is that banks are necessary for the development of the
>> economy..."
>>
>> Banks are not necessary to create money for the economy.
>>
>> That is one myth we need to get over, pronto!
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 5:01 PM, Jorge Amigo <jorge at amigoconsultores.cl>
>> wrote:
>> > Dear community.
>> > It's interesting how the video has generated many comments and open a
>> debate
>> > on banks.
>> > We can not forget that the video is publicity, good publicity, very well
>> > done. Fulfills its purpose of seducing. Makes you want to go to the
>> bank to
>> > ask for a loan (a joke). Nothing here is improvised. No open space.
>> this is
>> > the truth.
>> > I agree with Harrison, the general principle of taking the opportunities
>> > that present themselves, are small steps, to open spaces and create the
>> > conditions for a more healthy and effective living.
>> > But do not be deluded.
>> > One thing is the people who work in banks, and another thing is the
>> owners
>> > of the banks.
>> > One thing is that banks are necessary for the development of the
>> economy,
>> > and another thing is that the people's economy is controlled by banks.
>> > Banking has become a predatory lender. Examples of bank loan shark
>> behavior
>> > abound in all countries.
>> > I wonder then. How to open spaces for the development of an economy
>> where
>> > the banking one's own contribution without usury?
>> > How can we provide, as a community, the development of an enabling
>> > environment to prevent potential abuse and abused?
>> > How can we open up spaces for politics and economics are made more from
>> love
>> > than from the ambition and greed?
>> > Is it appropriate to ask ourselves as a community in these issues?
>> > A big hug
>> > Jorge Amigo
>> >
>> > El 29-01-2013 14:16, Brett Barndt escribió:
>> >
>> >> Harrison,
>> >>
>> >> Great to see this topic on OSlist. Very very very important for
>> >> caring, concerned, and socially engaged people to educate ourselves
>> >> about this important and fundamental topic. In fact, there are
>> >> alternatives to this system and Sh* does not need to happen quite like
>> >> it does. The Sh* is a product of the system as it is designed. There
>> >> are alternatives, and it is high time we resurfaced those alternatives
>> >> in consciousness after a century of power institution efforts to erase
>> >> them.
>> >>
>> >> There is some very good history by Farley Grubb of UDelaware on the
>> >> origins of bank power over our economy. It turns out a significant
>> >> number of the Founding Fathers were bank shareholders in the Bank of
>> >> the United States. Farley Grubb makes it pretty clear that the
>> >> Founders and the "Money Interests" got what they wanted by limiting
>> >> the ability of local communities and states to issue their own money
>> >> into circulation.
>> >>
>> >> They made sure that the private banking industry would have control
>> >> over the money supply, to expand it when they want to, and then
>> >> contract when they need to for their own profit purposes.
>> >>
>> >> This system is in stark contrast to the colonial period when
>> >> individual colonies issued currency into circulation for services
>> >> rendered to the colony. i.e. community.
>> >>
>> >> Banks may be part of our economic life, but the way they create the
>> >> money supply through debts is an arbitrary form emanating from England
>> >> with the Bank of England. They used that system all over the empire
>> >> precisely because it draws the fruits of productive effort and human
>> >> transformative energy ever more toward a center of fewer and fewer
>> >> owners. The IMF then pushed it out to more places in the world after
>> >> "independence" and the replacement of the British Empire.
>> >>
>> >> The system was also foisted upon European countries in the days of
>> >> "classical" or "liberal" economics. The system itself as designed
>> >> explains why wealth and income is so concentrated in these economies,
>> >> and why more and more are rendered property-less wage earners
>> >> perpetually in debt to the owners of the banks at the heart of the
>> >> economic system.
>> >>
>> >> It turns out that the "open space" of the Constitutional Conventions
>> >> in Philadelphia in the 17980s were not so open since bank shareholders
>> >> were the preponderance of the attendees at the "open space". And,
>> >> evidently there were several similar "coup d'etats" against real
>> >> dialogue and all voices being heard over time at strategic moments
>> >> from then until now. The Shays and Whiskey Rebellions arose only a few
>> >> short years after this money monopoly was established as evidence
>> >> enough of its unjust outcomes.
>> >>
>> >> We need to open that space again and revisit these constitutions and
>> >> all the law codes that privilege creditors, banks, and their
>> >> beneficial owners over everybody else who really are the ones creating
>> >> everything that's created underlying the economy. It is after all a
>> >> human economy.
>> >>
>> >> We all need to learn more vocabulary about the choices available to us
>> >> for how money comes into existence. This is what now needs to happen
>> >> in Open Space. Conventional wisdom, lack of knowledge, propaganda, and
>> >> loss of agency have taken away our knowledge about the origins of
>> >> money, and the power dynamics inherent in those origins.
>> >>
>> >> Like Grubb and other historians studying about money in these early
>> >> Constitutional Conventions like to say, "the average red neck farmer
>> >> in the Carolinas knew more about money and where it comes from than
>> >> the average Ivy League educated law student today."
>> >>
>> >> And, I witnessed his questioning the audience about origin of money to
>> >> an audience of law students at Columbia University just last week!
>> >>
>> >> We had better wake up from our slumber about these dark details. The
>> >> Spanish banks are not the only ones who have a lot to cover up with
>> >> feel good warm and fuzzy commercials. They have taken the nation to
>> >> the brink of disaster. 26% unemployment, and like in Greece, rising
>> >> suicide rates.
>> >>
>> >> As a Canadian visitor asked a group of young activists in December in
>> >> NYC, "do you Americans know what has happened to your country? Do you
>> >> know what it is like to come by train from Toronto and cross the
>> >> border at Niagara Falls to see boarded up and abandoned houses? And, 8
>> >> hours of train past disused factories and towns all over New York
>> >> State? Do you know what happens when the wealth of a generation gets
>> >> wiped out?"
>> >>
>> >> Of course they did not know what happens...maybe that would be wisdom
>> >> for European grandparents to contribute!
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 10:39 AM, Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Eleder – As you may have noticed, we had a few problems with Banks
>> here
>> >>> in
>> >>> the USA. Some of it was due to outright incompetence, some to criminal
>> >>> greed
>> >>> and  some more to simple mistakes (both honest and stupid). All told
>> it
>> >>> looked like another day in Human Land with the good, the bad, and the
>> >>> ugly
>> >>> and a net result that Banks in general became #1 on the List of folks
>> you
>> >>> love to hate. Been there.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> But all that said, Banks are an essential part of our economic life
>> and
>> >>> we
>> >>> certainly need to take them to task when they do some of the darker
>> >>> things
>> >>> that they did. At the same time I believe we need to encourage them
>> when
>> >>> they take some positive, albeit faltering steps, for example the
>> video.
>> >>> Most
>> >>> of all, Banks (like all other human institutions) desperately need
>> some
>> >>> broader open space. Having had several (banks) as clients I can say
>> that
>> >>> these poor folks ( and I really mean that) spend their lives in
>> >>> suffocating
>> >>> conditions filled with rules, regulations, pecking orders, petty power
>> >>> plays
>> >>> – to the point that they are isolated from each other and most
>> especially
>> >>> from the world beyond. One effect of this is that when some part of
>> their
>> >>> system goes seriously off the track and displays truly sick behavior,
>> >>> that
>> >>> pathology is amplified by the closeness, not unlike a bad abscess.
>> >>> Carrying
>> >>> the analogy – the first step towards a cure is to let in some fresh
>> air
>> >>> and
>> >>> light (open the space). Given the space/time the conscience of their
>> >>> colleagues has a chance to clean things up, and when the space is
>> opened
>> >>> even wider, the whole community can render the same function.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I don’t think this is rosy-eyed idealism… Fact is, Banks are just
>> another
>> >>> part of humanity, and sh… does happen. And when it does, some fresh
>> air
>> >>> helps. So it seems to me that anytime we have the opportunity to open
>> >>> some
>> >>> space, we should seize that moment. Maybe the opening is just a little
>> >>> bit…
>> >>> but you have to start somewhere.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Harrison
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Harrison Owen
>> >>>
>> >>> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>> >>>
>> >>> Potomac, MD 20854
>> >>>
>> >>> USA
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
>> >>>
>> >>> Camden, Maine 04843
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Phone 301-365-2093
>> >>>
>> >>> (summer)  207-763-3261
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> www.openspaceworld.com
>> >>>
>> >>> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
>> >>>
>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
>> >>> OSLIST
>> >>> Go
>> >>> to:
>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
>> >>> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of
>> Eleder_BuM
>> >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 6:36 AM
>> >>> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
>> >>> Subject: Re: [OSList] An offering!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Harrison, my friend! I was curious on your opinion, thanks for
>> sharing!
>> >>>
>> >>> I try all my best not to be a sour puss, kill joy, Grinch,... :-)! You
>> >>> know
>> >>> I really enjoy singing, dancing, laughing,...  but I have my own
>> limits
>> >>> and
>> >>> days, and I feel much better after expressing the shadows also.
>> >>>
>> >>> Specially when (reading the previous messages) people seemed to ignore
>> >>> the
>> >>> whole stuff (light and shadow), that was so apparent to me with this
>> >>> commercial.
>> >>>
>> >>> (Maybe I´m too sensitive with banks now. Last time suicides are on the
>> >>> headlines -quite near Sabadell, the place of this bank and spot-, due
>> to
>> >>> people being taking out of the houses where they used to live, because
>> >>> they
>> >>> are no more able to pay the loans they signed,... maybe just another
>> >>> campaing?)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sure "even banks can do it", of course there are nice people in
>> banks,..
>> >>> but
>> >>> I still have a mix of feelings watching the commercial.
>> >>>
>> >>> And, concerning the subject of this list, I still think that the
>> piece in
>> >>> Sabadell seems quite different from self organized and emergent,
>> >>> spontaneus,...
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks to this great conversation I recalled another commercial video
>> >>> related to banks in Spain. This one was recorded in Sevilla some 2
>> years
>> >>> ago. It´s not Beethoven, It´s a plain "rumba", but the lyrics are a
>> real
>> >>> fun
>> >>> ;-)!
>> >>>
>> >>> And the stuff seems to me much more real. There is even some conflict,
>> >>> confussion, chaos at the end,... One can sense there was not much
>> money
>> >>> for
>> >>> the artists,  but lots of humour and spirit... Enjoy yourselves :-)!
>> >>>
>> >>> http://in-fluyendo.blogspot.com.es/2011/01/ole.html
>> >>>
>> >>> May people working for banks have soon the opportunity to participate
>> in
>> >>> regular OST events as the one described by Lisa to handle their/our
>> main
>> >>> issues and opportunities!
>> >>>
>> >>> This day we will probably have one less thing to do (commercials :-)
>> and
>> >>> the
>> >>> whole community will join in joy and musical, artful spirit,... let´s
>> >>> dream
>> >>> :-)!
>> >>>
>> >>> Love,
>> >>>
>> >>> @Eleder_BuM
>> >>> www.burumapak.blogspot.com
>> >>> www.flowandshow.blogspot.com
>> >>> www.bilbohiria.com/gaika/berbaz
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> 2013/1/28 Harrison Owen <hhowen at verizon.net>
>> >>>
>> >>> Eleder – you old sour puss, kill joy, Grinch. Don’t you know that even
>> >>> Banks
>> >>> can spread some joy? Actually any time anybody wants to do a
>> commercial
>> >>> as
>> >>> gorgeous as that one, I say bring it on! Sets a whole new standard
>> that
>> >>> needs to be repeated (IMHO – which thanks to Artur I now know what
>> that
>> >>> means). And since everything is open space (IMHO X 2), I guess even
>> Banks
>> >>> can do it. J
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ho
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Harrison Owen
>> >>>
>> >>> 7808 River Falls Dr.
>> >>>
>> >>> Potomac, MD 20854
>> >>>
>> >>> USA
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> 189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)
>> >>>
>> >>> Camden, Maine 04843
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Phone 301-365-2093
>> >>>
>> >>> (summer)  207-763-3261
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> www.openspaceworld.com
>> >>>
>> >>> www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)
>> >>>
>> >>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of
>> >>> OSLIST
>> >>> Go
>> >>> to:
>> http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
>> >>> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of
>> Eleder_BuM
>> >>> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 6:10 AM
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
>> >>> Subject: Re: [OSList] An offering!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi Anne and all friends around,
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> This music feels us with positivity, sure, and the stuff may resemble
>> >>> Open
>> >>> Space,...
>> >>>
>> >>> I´ll add, anyway, that..
>> >>>
>> >>> it is a commercial for a bank (and this awakens not-so-uplifting
>> emotions
>> >>> inside me :-o) and
>> >>> the concert seems quite different from self organized and emergent.
>> >>> ...
>> >>>
>> >>> long life and much love from Bilbao, on this bright day after some
>> rainy
>> >>> weeks,
>> >>>
>> >>> @Eleder_BuM
>> >>> www.burumapak.blogspot.com
>> >>> www.flowandshow.blogspot.com
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
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> CHRIS CORRIGAN
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-- 
*Jamie Colston*

Enabling young people to design inspiring events and host conversations
that matter to them, empowering them to find their voice and take practical
action towards creating a sustainable, peaceful and equitable world.

*
*

*M: *07909 442006 *E: *jamiecolston at gmail.com* *

*FB/Linked In/Skype:* Jamie Colston  *Twitter*: spearthwarrior

*Nowhere ECL  www.now-here.com/ecl*

*Green Vision Movement  www.greenvisionmovement.org*

**** <http://www.bathamptoncsa.wordpress.com/>* *
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