[OSList] Individual and collective master (was: OST - Open Systems Thinking)

[Stanley Park]

More often than not I know I feel united with the Universe, everything that
exist, and God the ultimate. Supramundane...

With ever deepening gratitude,

spark
2011. 12. 18. 오전 3:38에 "Stanley Park" <spark.osk at gmail.com>님이 작성:

> It would surely be a worthwhile investment for you to lead us to work on
> that.
>
> For me OS is a conscious state of journey toward an ultimate state of
> being- wholeness with the Universe or God.
> 2011. 12. 18. 오전 2:32에 "Harrison Owen" <hhowen at verizon.net>님이 작성:
>
>> Bernhard – having said that “I was in”(for more discussion) – I guess I
>> just sort of disappeared without further word. However, being at a loss for
>> words is not a common state for me J -- and the topic you raise is, and
>> has been, of intense interest to me.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> The similarity of the Open Space experience and the Buddhist practice and
>> experience caught my attention some time ago. And, as I said in my prior
>> post, it is not just Buddhism but many, perhaps most, of the other great
>> traditions. But Buddhism is certainly a great place to start. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I am not at all sure what the initiating moment was, but I rather think
>> it was when I noticed a common phrase that folks used in the closing
>> circle. It didn’t happen every time, but more often than not, somebody
>> would remark, “I feel like I have come home.” Nobody ever defined precisely
>> what they meant by “home,” and maybe they couldn’t – so I always took it at
>> face value. Something about feeling natural and comfortable, just the way I
>> am. The implication was that in other situations the feeling was being
>> un-natural, ill at ease and to some extent inauthentic or “put on.” What
>> popped into my head was a phrase I had often encountered in the Buddhist
>> literature about seeing/meeting my “original face.” ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> When combined with observed and/or reported feelings and behaviors in
>> Open Space, such as: --  focus and presence, the capacity to treat others
>> with respect, the ability to listen and engage the other with depth and
>> sensitivity, an expanded sense of vision and possibility, renewed hope,
>> fundamental life change, an acute sense of spaciousness such that the
>> present moment (Now) just grew and grew… it seemed like something was going
>> on. The fact that most or all of these things are also the reported results
>> of Buddhist Practice (certainly my practice which is pretty much Buddhist)
>> was more than sufficient to alert my curiosity bump. Something was
>> definitely going on. But what and why? ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> That Buddhist Practice could produce such results was understandable to
>> me given the original insights of Gautama, centuries of intense study,
>> communal practice, and no small amount of discipline. But what about Open
>> Space? We just sat in a circle, created a bulletin board, opened a market
>> place…originally inspired by two martinis. And our history in this
>> enterprise is hardly extensive, at least in comparison to the Buddhist
>> community. I confess that it made absolutely no sense at all.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> The questions, however,  are fairly clear even if the answers are a tad
>> wispy. What are the connections? What is the means/mechanism? You mentioned
>> a “collective Master function” – about which I would love to hear more. But
>> my thoughts have been going in a slightly different direction. No certainty
>> for sure – but just to share.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> First for the connection. It seems to me that the connection between
>> Buddhist Practice and Open Space is probably co-incidental. But that does
>> not make it a weak connection, for co-incidental, as I am using the word
>> here means that the two are connected through a prior (coincident)
>> connection… with the power of  self organization. Yes I know – the whole
>> notion of self organization nowhere shows up in the Buddhist literature, so
>> far as I know. But if the present general scientific contention is correct
>> that self-organization has been operative for at least 13.7 billion years
>> it would be rather odd if we (present day humans) were the first to notice
>> the effect upon human life, be that individual or collective. So my thought
>> (suggestion) would be that the Buddhist community, being the keen observers
>> of the human condition that they are, discovered a (the) fundamental power
>> of life (by whatever name) and created a practice enabling human beings to
>> fully align themselves with that power. Once in alignment, the experience
>> is of full authenticity, being fully what we really are, seeing our
>> original face. Or coming home.  Is this really true? I don’t know, but
>> given another lifetime, I would surely like to find out. I guess I should
>> have been a Hindu?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> My story about Open Space is that, quite serendipitously (dumb blind
>> luck), we arrived at a similar place by a very different route. Every time
>> we open space, the process of self organization is initiated, re-initiated
>> – or maybe just brought to our consciousness. And the net result is that we
>> (the participants) find ourselves in a environment which allows/invites us
>> to be as we really are. Almost without knowing it, we find ourselves in
>> alignment with a fundamental process of the cosmos. Once there, we
>> experience a strangely comfortable world, which looks just like the
>> “everyday” world, but feels rather different. We have come home.
>>  Obviously, not everybody in every Open Space shares this experience. For
>> some people it just doesn’t “take,” or if it does “ take” the level of
>> resistance is such that the new experience is perceived as strange, weird,
>> or worse.  But for many people in multiple times and places over our 25
>> year adventure – it definitely feels like we have come home. At least that
>> is a possible story.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Would I suggest that Open Space somehow supplants the  Buddhist
>> experience? A straight simple shot to Nirvana? Absolutely not! But I do
>> think the two experiences can be very complementary. At least that has
>> certainly how it has been for me. Even though a first encounter with Open
>> Space can feel like “coming home,” that homecoming is often taken with baby
>> steps. What is missing is a deep appreciation of the full power and
>> possibilities at hand. It is sort of like coming back to the old homestead
>> with lots of warm feelings, but little knowledge of all the rooms and
>> spaces, nooks and crannies that await our exploration and appropriation.
>>   In my own case, it was my practice (largely Buddhist, as I said) that
>> became my guide, both as facilitator and participant. I don’t have a clue
>> as to whether others might share – they will have to speak for themselves.
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> So if it were true that the operative power of self organization were the
>> connecting link between the Buddhist experience and Open Space would that
>> somehow consign both to a realm dominated by a purely physical force,
>> thereby reducing each to the level of a side show in the great drama of
>> Physics? Do we suddenly and necessarily find ourselves in the company of
>> all those who choose to understand life and our part in it simply as the
>> product of quarks and neutrinos, hormones and peptides? What about those
>> other realities that some of us call Spirit or Consciousness? The choice is
>> clearly there to be made, but from where I sit, the two poles (Spirit and
>> matter) and not mutually exclusive.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> One of the oldest discussions of humankind is the precedence of
>> Spirit/Consciousness and matter. Is matter the product of
>> Spirit/Consciousness? Or did it somehow occur that matter evolved to become
>> conscious? For the vast majority of human history it was understood that
>> matter emerges from Consciousness, indeed I suspect  that is the majority
>> opinion even today. Recently, however, the relationship has been reversed,
>> at least in parts of the Scientific West. I suspect there will never come a
>> day when the issue is resolved at the level of proof. It will remain a
>> matter of discussion, choice, and experience, which I rather think to be a
>> good thing.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Speaking personally, however, I am clear about my experience and my
>> choice. In the beginning, indeed before any possibility of beginning –
>> there is Consciousness/Spirit. Given this experience and choice, self
>> organization assumes the position of a manifestation of consciousness. Self
>> Organization is what Consciousness does in time and space, along with many
>> other things. Is this true? I don’t think we will ever know, and indeed the
>> wondrous gift of this Great Cloud of Unknowing is a less than gentle
>> reminder of our limitations. In the meantime, and all that said – It works
>> for me. Those of you who know me will hardly be surprised. After all I am
>> the guy who opened his first book on Organizations with the line, “Spirit
>> is the most important thing.” I haven’t changed.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Enough of this esoterica! And if you have read this far you may well be
>> asking yourself, “Where’s the Beef?” What possible practical benefit? What
>> makes you think that filling the space of OSLIST with this sort of stuff
>> could have any useful application. Fair question.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I think there are at least two reasons. The first I might summarize under
>> the heading of “Beer in the Fridge.”****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> If you are thirsty for a beer in my house, all you really have to know is
>> how to open the refrigerator door and open a can.  The fact that major
>> scientific advances, over multiple years,  possessing mind bending
>> complexity – lie behind the coldness of the beer just waiting your parched
>> throat doesn’t really affect a thing. If you want the beer, get it. On the
>> other hand if you are a real aficionado for whom all the little things
>> count, you really do need to know something about Refrigeration Mechanics,
>> the flow of gasses, the way pressure can raise and lower temperatures. Same
>> thing with Open Space. If all you want to do is have a good meeting, no
>> problem. Sit in a circle, create a bulletin board, open a market place, and
>> go to work. Ain’t Rocket Science. However, should you want to enhance the
>> quality of the space, raise the level of impact, extend the positive
>> effects for yourself and the participants, looking under the hood, thinking
>> about the details, asking impossible questions… is probably a good place to
>> start.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> My second reason may be a little more abstract. And it is all about the 5
>> th Principle: Wherever it happens is the right place.”  For me the
>> cutting edge in what we do is not so much about doing an event but rather
>> coming  to an understanding that Open Space is a 24X7 reality and that we
>> may learn how to enhance the power of the experience wherever that might be
>> taking place… Tahrir Square, OWS, or the kitchen table. Learning to do that
>> well involves, at the least, looking for linkages and connections –
>> potential allies in a common undertaking. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> So I am done for the moment. As I said at the start, being at a loss for
>> words in not my common state. Maybe I should work on that?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Harrison    ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Harrison Owen****
>>
>> 7808 River Falls Dr.****
>>
>> Potomac, MD 20854****
>>
>> USA****
>>
>> ** **
>>
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>>
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>>
>> ** **
>>
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>>
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>>
>> ** **
>>
>> www.openspaceworld.com****
>>
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>>
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>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
>> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] *On Behalf Of *Bernhard
>> Weber
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2011 12:13 AM
>> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
>> *Subject:* [OSList] Individual and collective master (was: OST - Open
>> Systems Thinking)****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Harrison and all****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I like the recently upcoming discussion about the history of Systems
>> Thinking, but I would also like to make a big jump from this. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I am not shure, but to me it seems to not be by pure "accident". ****
>>
>> 1. Recently Stanley park wrote "Now is the territory of Peace- Nirvana" *
>> ***
>>
>> 2. And some days later you Harrison wrote "Open the space of your life
>> and the lives of those around you, and you will discover your own natural
>> state". ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> "Your own natural state", that is exactly how Buddhist masters (like e.g.
>> Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, the contemporary Tibetan Dzogchen-teacher)
>> refer to what is often called enlightenment, liberation, Rigpa, ... ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Although it is not really possible to "feel" something behind the words
>> of a written posting, I always felt some kind of reluctance by side of you,
>> when somebody in the group related the effects of OST or the OS spirit to
>> central Buddhist concepts. Would you prefer to not discuss it (treat it as
>> a tabu) or am I completely wrong here? (And my feeling demasked as
>> pseudo-feeling;-)****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I am here in Sri Lanka at the beginning of the 7th year of residence, the
>> place/space where Gautamas words have been put into Pali language and
>> written down some hundreds of years after his passing away/paranirvana. So
>> all this is resonating in me as a kind of effect of the Spirit of the
>> space/genius loci. ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Anyhow I would like to invite you and all to explore, if the following
>> idea makes sense: ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> What the two citations above seem to hint at in my eyes , is a quite
>> specific function/effect of Open Space: being a trigger for processes
>> during which not only things get done, as it has been pointed out again and
>> again, but a trigger for processes that may also lead to enlightenment. If
>> there is some value in that idea, then OS might be a collective equivalent
>> of a master****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> A master also can only be a trigger, because as already the historical
>> Gautama (called the Buddha) stated, that he can, on basis of his own
>> experience only show the way, point to the right direction, but the
>> practitioner has to do the work. There is no way that the master can do it
>> (the full liberation, the reaching of the natural state) for the student.
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> So I am wondering if the efficiency and effectiveness of OST in getting
>> things done, is not intrinsicly knitted together with (alias dialectically
>> connected to) this "collective master function". Two sides of one medal?*
>> ***
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Of course I am not interested to tie OS to Buddhism as a belief system. *
>> ***
>>
>> But of course my understanding of the ways to enlightenment is also not
>> tied to a specific belief system. I have luckily been exposed to "passion,
>> responsability and love " in- and outside of OST in various cultures like
>> my own Christian culture in Austria, Candomblé in Brazil, animistic cults
>> (as the christians call them) in Africa, Buddhism of the Theravada,
>> Mahayana, and Tibetan tradition (Buddhism fused with Bön), Yoga in India...
>>  And it always works and in all kinds of places.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> So once again: might it be legitimate, make sense and be useful to look
>> at OST as a kind of set up for a collective master without a present
>> individual guru?****
>>
>> Or not?****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Bernd/Colombo****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>>  ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> . ****
>>
>>
>> Bernd Weber****
>>
>> Change Facilitation s.r.o., A Global Partner Who Makes Change Happen in
>> Complex Environments; www.change-facilitation.com,
>> www.change-management-toolbook.com bernd.weber at change-facilitation.org;
>> Regional Phone  numbers: ****
>>
>> -Austria: +43 664 135 4828, landline + 431 5968657)****
>>
>> -Sri Lanka: landline +94 11 2785859, iPhone +94 777740757****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> NEW: Intensive Learning Workshop ****
>>
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>> ** **
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>> 2 completely taylor-made according to your individual learning interests &
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>>
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>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> If you get Email from my account <bernd.weber at change-facilitation.org>
>> please do not use the reply button but answer to <weberb at gmx.at>,
>> because my change-facilitation.org INBOX is not working for the time
>> being.****
>>
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>> ****
>>
>> ** **
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>> Am 13.12.2011 um 22:11 schrieb Harrison Owen:****
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> discover your own natural state****
>>
>> ** **
>>
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