[OSList] Individual and collective master (was: OST - Open Systems Thinking)

[Stanley Park]

It would surely be a worthwhile investment for you to lead us to work on
that.

For me OS is a conscious state of journey toward an ultimate state of
being- wholeness with the Universe or God.
2011. 12. 18. 오전 2:32에 "Harrison Owen" <hhowen at verizon.net>님이 작성:

> Bernhard – having said that “I was in”(for more discussion) – I guess I
> just sort of disappeared without further word. However, being at a loss for
> words is not a common state for me J -- and the topic you raise is, and
> has been, of intense interest to me.****
>
> ** **
>
> The similarity of the Open Space experience and the Buddhist practice and
> experience caught my attention some time ago. And, as I said in my prior
> post, it is not just Buddhism but many, perhaps most, of the other great
> traditions. But Buddhism is certainly a great place to start. ****
>
> ** **
>
> I am not at all sure what the initiating moment was, but I rather think it
> was when I noticed a common phrase that folks used in the closing circle.
> It didn’t happen every time, but more often than not, somebody would
> remark, “I feel like I have come home.” Nobody ever defined precisely what
> they meant by “home,” and maybe they couldn’t – so I always took it at face
> value. Something about feeling natural and comfortable, just the way I am.
> The implication was that in other situations the feeling was being
> un-natural, ill at ease and to some extent inauthentic or “put on.” What
> popped into my head was a phrase I had often encountered in the Buddhist
> literature about seeing/meeting my “original face.” ****
>
> ** **
>
> When combined with observed and/or reported feelings and behaviors in Open
> Space, such as: --  focus and presence, the capacity to treat others with
> respect, the ability to listen and engage the other with depth and
> sensitivity, an expanded sense of vision and possibility, renewed hope,
> fundamental life change, an acute sense of spaciousness such that the
> present moment (Now) just grew and grew… it seemed like something was going
> on. The fact that most or all of these things are also the reported results
> of Buddhist Practice (certainly my practice which is pretty much Buddhist)
> was more than sufficient to alert my curiosity bump. Something was
> definitely going on. But what and why? ****
>
> ** **
>
> That Buddhist Practice could produce such results was understandable to me
> given the original insights of Gautama, centuries of intense study,
> communal practice, and no small amount of discipline. But what about Open
> Space? We just sat in a circle, created a bulletin board, opened a market
> place…originally inspired by two martinis. And our history in this
> enterprise is hardly extensive, at least in comparison to the Buddhist
> community. I confess that it made absolutely no sense at all.****
>
> ** **
>
> The questions, however,  are fairly clear even if the answers are a tad
> wispy. What are the connections? What is the means/mechanism? You mentioned
> a “collective Master function” – about which I would love to hear more. But
> my thoughts have been going in a slightly different direction. No certainty
> for sure – but just to share.****
>
> ** **
>
> First for the connection. It seems to me that the connection between
> Buddhist Practice and Open Space is probably co-incidental. But that does
> not make it a weak connection, for co-incidental, as I am using the word
> here means that the two are connected through a prior (coincident)
> connection… with the power of  self organization. Yes I know – the whole
> notion of self organization nowhere shows up in the Buddhist literature, so
> far as I know. But if the present general scientific contention is correct
> that self-organization has been operative for at least 13.7 billion years
> it would be rather odd if we (present day humans) were the first to notice
> the effect upon human life, be that individual or collective. So my thought
> (suggestion) would be that the Buddhist community, being the keen observers
> of the human condition that they are, discovered a (the) fundamental power
> of life (by whatever name) and created a practice enabling human beings to
> fully align themselves with that power. Once in alignment, the experience
> is of full authenticity, being fully what we really are, seeing our
> original face. Or coming home.  Is this really true? I don’t know, but
> given another lifetime, I would surely like to find out. I guess I should
> have been a Hindu?****
>
> ** **
>
> My story about Open Space is that, quite serendipitously (dumb blind
> luck), we arrived at a similar place by a very different route. Every time
> we open space, the process of self organization is initiated, re-initiated
> – or maybe just brought to our consciousness. And the net result is that we
> (the participants) find ourselves in a environment which allows/invites us
> to be as we really are. Almost without knowing it, we find ourselves in
> alignment with a fundamental process of the cosmos. Once there, we
> experience a strangely comfortable world, which looks just like the
> “everyday” world, but feels rather different. We have come home.
>  Obviously, not everybody in every Open Space shares this experience. For
> some people it just doesn’t “take,” or if it does “ take” the level of
> resistance is such that the new experience is perceived as strange, weird,
> or worse.  But for many people in multiple times and places over our 25
> year adventure – it definitely feels like we have come home. At least that
> is a possible story.****
>
> ** **
>
> Would I suggest that Open Space somehow supplants the  Buddhist
> experience? A straight simple shot to Nirvana? Absolutely not! But I do
> think the two experiences can be very complementary. At least that has
> certainly how it has been for me. Even though a first encounter with Open
> Space can feel like “coming home,” that homecoming is often taken with baby
> steps. What is missing is a deep appreciation of the full power and
> possibilities at hand. It is sort of like coming back to the old homestead
> with lots of warm feelings, but little knowledge of all the rooms and
> spaces, nooks and crannies that await our exploration and appropriation.
>   In my own case, it was my practice (largely Buddhist, as I said) that
> became my guide, both as facilitator and participant. I don’t have a clue
> as to whether others might share – they will have to speak for themselves.
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> So if it were true that the operative power of self organization were the
> connecting link between the Buddhist experience and Open Space would that
> somehow consign both to a realm dominated by a purely physical force,
> thereby reducing each to the level of a side show in the great drama of
> Physics? Do we suddenly and necessarily find ourselves in the company of
> all those who choose to understand life and our part in it simply as the
> product of quarks and neutrinos, hormones and peptides? What about those
> other realities that some of us call Spirit or Consciousness? The choice is
> clearly there to be made, but from where I sit, the two poles (Spirit and
> matter) and not mutually exclusive.****
>
> ** **
>
> One of the oldest discussions of humankind is the precedence of
> Spirit/Consciousness and matter. Is matter the product of
> Spirit/Consciousness? Or did it somehow occur that matter evolved to become
> conscious? For the vast majority of human history it was understood that
> matter emerges from Consciousness, indeed I suspect  that is the majority
> opinion even today. Recently, however, the relationship has been reversed,
> at least in parts of the Scientific West. I suspect there will never come a
> day when the issue is resolved at the level of proof. It will remain a
> matter of discussion, choice, and experience, which I rather think to be a
> good thing.****
>
> ** **
>
> Speaking personally, however, I am clear about my experience and my
> choice. In the beginning, indeed before any possibility of beginning –
> there is Consciousness/Spirit. Given this experience and choice, self
> organization assumes the position of a manifestation of consciousness. Self
> Organization is what Consciousness does in time and space, along with many
> other things. Is this true? I don’t think we will ever know, and indeed the
> wondrous gift of this Great Cloud of Unknowing is a less than gentle
> reminder of our limitations. In the meantime, and all that said – It works
> for me. Those of you who know me will hardly be surprised. After all I am
> the guy who opened his first book on Organizations with the line, “Spirit
> is the most important thing.” I haven’t changed.****
>
> ** **
>
> Enough of this esoterica! And if you have read this far you may well be
> asking yourself, “Where’s the Beef?” What possible practical benefit? What
> makes you think that filling the space of OSLIST with this sort of stuff
> could have any useful application. Fair question.****
>
> ** **
>
> I think there are at least two reasons. The first I might summarize under
> the heading of “Beer in the Fridge.”****
>
> ** **
>
> If you are thirsty for a beer in my house, all you really have to know is
> how to open the refrigerator door and open a can.  The fact that major
> scientific advances, over multiple years,  possessing mind bending
> complexity – lie behind the coldness of the beer just waiting your parched
> throat doesn’t really affect a thing. If you want the beer, get it. On the
> other hand if you are a real aficionado for whom all the little things
> count, you really do need to know something about Refrigeration Mechanics,
> the flow of gasses, the way pressure can raise and lower temperatures. Same
> thing with Open Space. If all you want to do is have a good meeting, no
> problem. Sit in a circle, create a bulletin board, open a market place, and
> go to work. Ain’t Rocket Science. However, should you want to enhance the
> quality of the space, raise the level of impact, extend the positive
> effects for yourself and the participants, looking under the hood, thinking
> about the details, asking impossible questions… is probably a good place to
> start.****
>
> ** **
>
> My second reason may be a little more abstract. And it is all about the 5
> th Principle: Wherever it happens is the right place.”  For me the
> cutting edge in what we do is not so much about doing an event but rather
> coming  to an understanding that Open Space is a 24X7 reality and that we
> may learn how to enhance the power of the experience wherever that might be
> taking place… Tahrir Square, OWS, or the kitchen table. Learning to do that
> well involves, at the least, looking for linkages and connections –
> potential allies in a common undertaking. ****
>
> ** **
>
> So I am done for the moment. As I said at the start, being at a loss for
> words in not my common state. Maybe I should work on that?****
>
> ** **
>
> Harrison    ****
>
> ** **
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> ****
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>
> Harrison Owen****
>
> 7808 River Falls Dr.****
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>
> *From:* oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org
> [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] *On Behalf Of *Bernhard
> Weber
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2011 12:13 AM
> *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list
> *Subject:* [OSList] Individual and collective master (was: OST - Open
> Systems Thinking)****
>
> ** **
>
> Harrison and all****
>
> ** **
>
> I like the recently upcoming discussion about the history of Systems
> Thinking, but I would also like to make a big jump from this. ****
>
> ** **
>
> I am not shure, but to me it seems to not be by pure "accident". ****
>
> 1. Recently Stanley park wrote "Now is the territory of Peace- Nirvana" **
> **
>
> 2. And some days later you Harrison wrote "Open the space of your life
> and the lives of those around you, and you will discover your own natural
> state". ****
>
> ** **
>
> "Your own natural state", that is exactly how Buddhist masters (like e.g.
> Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, the contemporary Tibetan Dzogchen-teacher)
> refer to what is often called enlightenment, liberation, Rigpa, ... ****
>
> ** **
>
> Although it is not really possible to "feel" something behind the words of
> a written posting, I always felt some kind of reluctance by side of you,
> when somebody in the group related the effects of OST or the OS spirit to
> central Buddhist concepts. Would you prefer to not discuss it (treat it as
> a tabu) or am I completely wrong here? (And my feeling demasked as
> pseudo-feeling;-)****
>
> ** **
>
> I am here in Sri Lanka at the beginning of the 7th year of residence, the
> place/space where Gautamas words have been put into Pali language and
> written down some hundreds of years after his passing away/paranirvana. So
> all this is resonating in me as a kind of effect of the Spirit of the
> space/genius loci. ****
>
> ** **
>
> Anyhow I would like to invite you and all to explore, if the following
> idea makes sense: ****
>
> ** **
>
> What the two citations above seem to hint at in my eyes , is a quite
> specific function/effect of Open Space: being a trigger for processes
> during which not only things get done, as it has been pointed out again and
> again, but a trigger for processes that may also lead to enlightenment. If
> there is some value in that idea, then OS might be a collective equivalent
> of a master****
>
> ** **
>
> A master also can only be a trigger, because as already the historical
> Gautama (called the Buddha) stated, that he can, on basis of his own
> experience only show the way, point to the right direction, but the
> practitioner has to do the work. There is no way that the master can do it
> (the full liberation, the reaching of the natural state) for the student.*
> ***
>
> ** **
>
> So I am wondering if the efficiency and effectiveness of OST in getting
> things done, is not intrinsicly knitted together with (alias dialectically
> connected to) this "collective master function". Two sides of one medal?**
> **
>
> ** **
>
> Of course I am not interested to tie OS to Buddhism as a belief system. **
> **
>
> But of course my understanding of the ways to enlightenment is also not
> tied to a specific belief system. I have luckily been exposed to "passion,
> responsability and love " in- and outside of OST in various cultures like
> my own Christian culture in Austria, Candomblé in Brazil, animistic cults
> (as the christians call them) in Africa, Buddhism of the Theravada,
> Mahayana, and Tibetan tradition (Buddhism fused with Bön), Yoga in India...
>  And it always works and in all kinds of places.****
>
> ** **
>
> So once again: might it be legitimate, make sense and be useful to look at
> OST as a kind of set up for a collective master without a present
> individual guru?****
>
> Or not?****
>
> ** **
>
> Bernd/Colombo****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
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>  ****
>
> ** **
>
> . ****
>
>
> Bernd Weber****
>
> Change Facilitation s.r.o., A Global Partner Who Makes Change Happen in
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> ****
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> Am 13.12.2011 um 22:11 schrieb Harrison Owen:****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> discover your own natural state****
>
> ** **
>
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