[OSList] OST - Open Systems Thinking

Tue Dec 13 07:26:00 PST 2011

Dear Artur,

I have some confusion about what you are saying about copyrighting. All books pertaining to OST including the User’s Guide, which defines OST, are copyrighted. All of Harrison’s teaching powerpoints about OST are copyrighted. I personally think this copyrighting was essential. Copyrighting can be perceived as a responsible way of the author to protect the materials, names, processes etc for the use of anyone who cares to use this material…freely. If Harrison had not copyrighted these materials, it could have been problematic in that someone else might have come along and copyrighted them….and then restricted their use…and it would definitely have had a negative impact on this entire OST community. So, personally, I thank HO for copyrighting.

Warmly,

Birgitt Williams

www.dalarinternational.com 

From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Artur Silva
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 4:39 AM
To: World wide Open Space Technology email list
Subject: Re: [OSList] OST - Open Systems Thinking

Peggy (also Birgitt, Harrison and all):

Bertalanffy spoke about "General Systems Theory" - the tytle of his most known book - where he talked mostly about "Open Systems". I never heard that he used the expression "Open Systems Theory", and he never used, as far as I know, acronyms - so he never used OST.

In what concerns Emery and Trist, they are most known from their experiences at the Tavistock Institute in the UK, where they begin talking about "socio-technical systems" - that Enid Munford later used to understand (Organizational) Information Systems Requirements Analysis and Design, using the "ETHICS" approach.

What I didn't know (and discovered from a completely different reason - searching for predecessors of the "Chaordic Systems Theory" - CST), was that Emery also used Open Systems Theory, that he abbreviated to OST. 

In the Wikipedia page you mentioned, Peggy, it's written:

Sociotechnical systems is one part of a comprehensive theoretical framework called Open Systems Theory (OST). Two of Emery's and Trist's key publications were: "The Causal Texture of Organisational Environments" (1965) - which became a citation classic - and "Towards a Social Ecology" (1972). These publications are the groundwork on which Fred Emery developed OST.

So I think that Emery use of OST has no relation with Open Systems Technology and was probably used first. 

But that is more of a "curiosity" than anything else: even if "Open Space Technology" was copyrighted the acronym wouldn't be, I presume. 

But if OST was copyrighted or trademarked it would be a completely different animal, of course. For me the non-copyrighted nature of Open Space Technology is one of its "foundations". I would never be interested in OST if it was copyrighted and had any "certification programs" associated...

Best

Artur

PS: Another curiosity is that if one searches in Google for "Open Systems Institute" the first entry is no longer a Canadian environmental organization (as I pointed out to you, Peggy, some time ago), but one of the enters corresponds to The Institute for Open Systems Technologies Pty Ltd  (http://www.ifost.org.au/) - an IT company... So, as Harrison pointed out, there is no use in defending the indefensible...  

  _____  

From: Peggy Holman <peggy at peggyholman.com>
To: World wide Open Space Technology email list <oslist at lists.openspacetech.org> 
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: [OSList] OST - Open Systems Thinking

Birgitt,

The term open systems theory was used by Ludwig von Bertalanffy in the 1950's.

Emery and Trist started using the term in the 1960's.

Peggy

On Dec 12, 2011, at 8:46 AM, Birgitt Williams wrote:

Looking deeper into the website, Artur, it is not at all clear who these people with OST (Open Systems Thinking) are. What they have at one point in their documents, however, is an article by Emery about Open Systems Thinking with reference that it is OST. I find this odd because Emery, also a highly regarded thought leader in organizational development, is well aware of OST as Open Space Technology.

Ah well. As Harrison says, OST is not trademarked. However, all of his books including Open Space Technology are copyrighted (also a legal designation). And despite the copyrighting, it is not worth defending as OST is out there sufficiently in the world as Open Space Technology already.

One reason that I am such a stickler about using ‘Open Space Technology’ rather than the shortened form ‘Open Space’ is that there is even more confusion about ‘Open Space’ as applied to this meeting method since Open Space as a term was used long before OST came along…especially in architecture and landscape architecture. I think that the more we all are careful about mentioning ‘Open Space Technology’, the more that there is a common recognition of a fabulous meeting facilitation method.

Birgitt

From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Harrison Owen
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 10:45 AM
To: 'Artur Silva'; 'World wide Open Space Technology email list'
Subject: Re: [OSList] OST - Open Systems Thinking

Never heard of them. Thank God I never patented or trademarked OST.  Just imagine all the trouble I would be in defending the indefensible – or something. Much more fun just to give it all away. And you certainly meet incredibly interesting people J

ho

Harrison Owen

7808 River Falls Dr.

Potomac, MD 20854

USA

189 Beaucaire Ave. (summer)

Camden, Maine 20854

Phone 301-365-2093

(summer)  207-763-3261

www.openspaceworld.com

www.ho-image.com (Personal Website)

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From: oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org [mailto:oslist-bounces at lists.openspacetech.org] On Behalf Of Artur Silva
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 9:52 AM
To: OSLIST New Adress
Subject: [OSList] OST - Open Systems Thinking

Hi:

Have any of you ever heard about this?

OST -  <http://www.thelightonthehill.com/> OPEN SYSTEMS THINKING:

 <http://www.thelightonthehill.com/> http://www.thelightonthehill.com/

Interesting...

Regards

Artur

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